Bar I gave to a friend got DOS

SoapMakingForum

Help Support SoapMakingForum:

Corsara

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
130
Reaction score
287
Location
Oklahoma
I used the basic Brambleberry recipe, it was my very first batch I made in January.


8 oz. Coconut Oil (24%)
15 oz. Olive Oil (44%)
11 oz. Palm Oil (32%)
4.8 oz. Lye
11.2 oz. Distilled Water (I'm not sure how to calculate the lye % from this)

I sent a bar with someone to a friend in Missouri just over a week ago. She sent me the attached picture. The bars I kept, stored in an open cardboard box, have no issues. Hers was in a paper bag with a couple of other bars.

I'm wondering how to store my others to avoid the same issue, and why this happened so soon?!
 

Attachments

Quanta

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 12, 2020
Messages
254
Reaction score
331
Location
USA
Add ROE and EDTA to your oils before adding the lye to prevent DOS. That's what I do. My very first batch of 100% olive oil soap got DOS 6 months into the cure. Now I put ROE and EDTA in my soap and haven't seen DOS since.

Also make sure you don't let the soap touch metal when curing (no metal racks). Don't use metal utensils or containers when making your soap.

Make sure your ingredients are fresh and stored appropriately.


 

ResolvableOwl

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2021
Messages
411
Reaction score
933
Location
Germany
Are you sure it's DOS? Has she noticed an unpleasant smell? From my DOS experiences, it doesn't look that bright yellow, but rather off-white/ivory, and then more tanned, until it gets orange-brown.
Judging from the photo alone, it could be just bleeding colourant/dye from something else (decoration on one of the other soaps? newspaper?).
From its ingredients, the “basic trinity” recipe is designed to be quite robust. But of course this doesn't prevent someone from using a rancid oil. Are you bookkeeping oil lot numbers?

You could tell her to keep it in a warm and bright place (but not direct sunlight), on a plastic surface. Ask her to watch it / make photos every few weeks. If it spreads, it's definitely DOS. If not, it might be DOS, or something else.

I'm not sure how to calculate the lye % from this
Lye concentration = mass of lye / mass of lye solution = mass of NaOH / (mass of NaOH + mass of water) = 4.8oz / (4.8oz+11.2oz) = 0.3 = 30%
 

cmzaha

Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
11,924
Reaction score
11,509
Location
Southern California
I use EDTA and Sodium Gluconate at 0.5% each to stop dos. It works as a chelator to stop soap scum along with helping stop dos.
 

AliOop

Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
3,952
Reaction score
6,243
Location
US
Is it possible that your friend has placed the soap on a metal soap dish, or in direct sunlight? If so, the issue may be on her end, and not yours. Lots of people aren't aware of how to properly store handmade soap, since most store-bought soap doesn't need any special treatment due to the additional ingredients.
 

Quanta

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 12, 2020
Messages
254
Reaction score
331
Location
USA
Are you sure it's DOS? Has she noticed an unpleasant smell? From my DOS experiences, it doesn't look that bright yellow, but rather off-white/ivory, and then more tanned, until it gets orange-brown.
Judging from the photo alone, it could be just bleeding colourant/dye from something else (decoration on one of the other soaps? newspaper?).
From its ingredients, the “basic trinity” recipe is designed to be quite robust. But of course this doesn't prevent someone from using a rancid oil. Are you bookkeeping oil lot numbers?

You could tell her to keep it in a warm and bright place (but not direct sunlight), on a plastic surface. Ask her to watch it / make photos every few weeks. If it spreads, it's definitely DOS. If not, it might be DOS, or something else.


Lye concentration = mass of lye / mass of lye solution = mass of NaOH / (mass of NaOH + mass of water) = 4.8oz / (4.8oz+11.2oz) = 0.3 = 30%
Now that I look at the picture on my computer screen rather than my phone, I think you're right. Unless the white balance of the picture is off, it does look too bright.
 

earlene

Grandmother & Soaper
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2016
Messages
8,148
Reaction score
8,396
Location
Western Illinois, USA
All of the above, regarding prevention.

Also, can you send her a new one along with a new soap dish? I always send a soap dish/soap lifter/soap saver with soaps to family the first time and sometimes again at a later date. As well as advising proper soap storage, just as a matter of course.

I would also keep an eye on the other soaps in that batch just to know for sure if any of them will turn DOSy in future.

Weather it is DOS or not, you can either suggest she cut out those 2 spots with a knife, or return the soap to you so you can observe it over time or she can continue to use it as is. Newly developing DOS spots don't make the soap unusable, and if she uses it at sink-side for handwashing, then she can watch the spots disappear with regular use (and report back to you). Or you could do the same if she mails it back to you.

Just a point of interest: In my experience, DOS doesn't really smell bad right away. The really rancid horrible smell comes later, and it is really rather awful as it permeates the entire bar.
 

Corsara

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
130
Reaction score
287
Location
Oklahoma
Add ROE and EDTA to your oils before adding the lye to prevent DOS. That's what I do. My very first batch of 100% olive oil soap got DOS 6 months into the cure. Now I put ROE and EDTA in my soap and haven't seen DOS since.

Also make sure you don't let the soap touch metal when curing (no metal racks). Don't use metal utensils or containers when making your soap.

Make sure your ingredients are fresh and stored appropriately.


It was stored on a plastic chopping board, and then cardboard. And all my ingredients were fresh, as it was one of my first batches
 

Corsara

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
130
Reaction score
287
Location
Oklahoma
Are you sure it's DOS? Has she noticed an unpleasant smell? From my DOS experiences, it doesn't look that bright yellow, but rather off-white/ivory, and then more tanned, until it gets orange-brown.
Judging from the photo alone, it could be just bleeding colourant/dye from something else (decoration on one of the other soaps? newspaper?).
From its ingredients, the “basic trinity” recipe is designed to be quite robust. But of course this doesn't prevent someone from using a rancid oil. Are you bookkeeping oil lot numbers?

You could tell her to keep it in a warm and bright place (but not direct sunlight), on a plastic surface. Ask her to watch it / make photos every few weeks. If it spreads, it's definitely DOS. If not, it might be DOS, or something else.


Lye concentration = mass of lye / mass of lye solution = mass of NaOH / (mass of NaOH + mass of water) = 4.8oz / (4.8oz+11.2oz) = 0.3 = 30%
I'll ask about the smell. . The only soap in the bag that had colourant just had coffee in it, and they were in a brown paper bag. I'll definitely ask her to monitor it!

Thank you for the info on the lye, I've been sticking with percentage based recipes other that that first batch, and I wasn't sure how to convert it.
 

Corsara

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
130
Reaction score
287
Location
Oklahoma
Is it possible that your friend has placed the soap on a metal soap dish, or in direct sunlight? If so, the issue may be on her end, and not yours. Lots of people aren't aware of how to properly store handmade soap, since most store-bought soap doesn't need any special treatment due to the additional ingredients.
As far as I know, it was already there by the time my other friends gave it to her. So it sat in a paper bag for a week or so in their RV I assume.
 

Corsara

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2021
Messages
130
Reaction score
287
Location
Oklahoma
All of the above, regarding prevention.

Also, can you send her a new one along with a new soap dish? I always send a soap dish/soap lifter/soap saver with soaps to family the first time and sometimes again at a later date. As well as advising proper soap storage, just as a matter of course.

I would also keep an eye on the other soaps in that batch just to know for sure if any of them will turn DOSy in future.

Weather it is DOS or not, you can either suggest she cut out those 2 spots with a knife, or return the soap to you so you can observe it over time or she can continue to use it as is. Newly developing DOS spots don't make the soap unusable, and if she uses it at sink-side for handwashing, then she can watch the spots disappear with regular use (and report back to you). Or you could do the same if she mails it back to you.

Just a point of interest: In my experience, DOS doesn't really smell bad right away. The really rancid horrible smell comes later, and it is really rather awful as it permeates the entire bar.
Thank you, great info on how to tell if it is DOS.
 

AliOop

Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
3,952
Reaction score
6,243
Location
US
As far as I know, it was already there by the time my other friends gave it to her. So it sat in a paper bag for a week or so in their RV I assume.
Might be worth asking just in case she set it out somewhere.
 
Top