Avocado oil questions

Discussion in 'Beginners Soap Making Forum' started by Cutetaxguy, Jul 20, 2019.

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  1. Jul 20, 2019 #1

    Cutetaxguy

    Cutetaxguy

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    I tries regular internet search and I tried searching this forum but I can’t find my answer.
    Will replacing Olive oil with avocado oil shorten The length of time it takes for the soap to harden? I was using a 40% olive oil i was hoping dropping the Oilve to 10% would help me out with time

    What I did find was it seems like a people like avocado oil better than the olive any ways as for skin feel
     
  2. Jul 20, 2019 #2

    Maaki

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    Hey bro. I have actually made lengthy post with my experiments using avocado oil instead of olive oil. However avocado oil makes a very soft bar, so I mix it with coconut oil and cocoa butter in high percentages to make it harder and will actually try incorporating waxes since my bars dont tend to last too long. I have noticed that it hardens in about 2-3 weeks, with an ideal curing time of 2 months. Given my experience I wouldnt go above 60% of AO. I agree, avocado feels awesome.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
  3. Jul 20, 2019 #3

    Cutetaxguy

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    I have bees wax ,steric acid , pine rosin, and beef tallow all on hand. I will put more attention to hardness next time , but There is olive oil , coconut oil and kokum butter in this batch already . I also ran across a tip about replacing some of your lye water with vinager to produce a harder bar of soap. I have not tried it yet but I think I can get around the soft issue. Thank you for the information on softness and hardening time frame
     
  4. Jul 20, 2019 #4

    cmzaha

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    Actually, 100% Avocado Oil makes a very hard bar but no lather, no slime like 100% OO and feels nice, but will only lather with a bath pouf. I like Avo in soap at the 20%-25% range. It gives a nice feel but adds nothing to lather. My 100% Avo was poured on 12/31/17 soap so they are well aged. :D Just so you know I make a lot of avocado oil soaps adding in puree at times.
     
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  5. Jul 20, 2019 #5

    Cin

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    I've read that soaps should be used by the earliest oil expiration date because of rancidity, and in the case of avocado oil that's about a year once opened.
    What are people's experience with their aged bars of soap?

    I have a salt bar that has 10% avocado oil in it. Everyone says it's better with age, but how long should I wait before risking DOS?
     
  6. Jul 20, 2019 #6

    shunt2011

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    I’ve got a couple salt soaps that are 7 years old that had avocado in them. They are still perfectly fine though the scent has faded. I use avocado in a couple other recipes and have no issues either.
     
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  7. Jul 20, 2019 #7

    cmzaha

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    :thumbs: I have never had dos with AVO and use it often.
     
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  8. Jul 20, 2019 #8

    DeeAnna

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    Don't get too rigid about the expiration date for the oils -- that date may or may not have any bearing on the soap. Expiration dates on longer-lived foods like fats are generally suggestions, not requirements.

    Your nose and eyes are the best resources when deciding if a soap has honestly reached the limit of its shelf life. Or the oils and fats for that matter.

    Rancidity (DOS) in soap can start within a few months or after a few years. If the soap smells "off", it's rancid. Other signs of rancidity that vary somewhat are the gradual change in color to dark orange or yellow color either overall or in spots and/or the development of a slimy surface texture.

    There are many triggers for rancidity in addition to the shelf life of the fats from which your soap is made. And there are additives -- antioxidants and chelators -- that can lengthen the shelf life.
     
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  9. Jul 21, 2019 #9

    Cutetaxguy

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    I have been adding avocado fruit as well for some, right. At the moment my avocado oil is about 30% . 40% for the vegan version.

    That’s also a concern for me. I have not been doing this very long. It would hate to find out I have DOS once they are ready to show off.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2019
  10. Jul 21, 2019 #10

    linne1gi

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    The only time I got DOS was when I used 25% Rice Bran Oil.
     
  11. Jul 21, 2019 #11

    cmzaha

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    Make sure your avocado puree is pureed well. Chunks of Avocado can mold and/or spoil. In my opinion of years of using Avocado oil, I would not use 40%, unless using at least 20% Co or Pko
     
  12. Jul 22, 2019 #12

    Cutetaxguy

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    One version I have avocado oil at 39% and coconut oil at 19% and palm oil at 12%

    Other has avocado at 30% and has coconut at 16%

    Yes I believe the purée is well mashed. I do add the oatmeal flower , almond cream and purée all together and add in after light trace and continue to cook until Vaseline stage.
    When I use the pot scrapings as a test it lathers up very nice. Has a silky feel and dose not leave my hands feeling at all dry

    I am having troubles getting my lye at the correct levels. I’m not passing the zap test. Even had a 5% super fat and already at mass potato phase and I’m not passing The zap test. I have read that avocado oil can be 4 to 9% unSaponifiable. The first time was a couple days ago and I thought maybe I just Messed up the weight of something or other. But now I think it’s the avocado oil

    Edit:
    I Have increased my oil weight by about 10% and cooked anothe 25 minutes. I’m still not passing the zap test. I pulled out my pH strips in my pH is at 11
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2019
  13. Jul 22, 2019 #13

    lenarenee

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    Let's check a couple of things; did you run your recipe through a lye calculator such as soapcalc.net?

    Is your scale accurate?

    Are you still cooking your soap right now? The phases of the cooking process are fickle, some people never see all the phases - or the phases will look different so you can't make a definitive judgment by what it looks like. So... you may have just zap tested too early.

    Also, it's possible to confuse a slightly zappy soap feeling with the taste of some unpleasant high pH soap. How much experience do you have with zap testing?
     
  14. Jul 22, 2019 #14

    KristaY

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    Have you repeated the zap on the batch you made a couple days ago? I lean toward doing the zap test too early. I'm not a seasoned HPer but make several batches a year and don't zap test at mashed potatoes.
     
  15. Jul 22, 2019 #15

    Steve85569

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    Zap = licking a 9 volt battery.
    If you are getting zapped you KNOW. ( don't even ask):D
     
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  16. Jul 22, 2019 #16

    DeeAnna

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    And remember a zap is an immediate sensation, like a static shock. If you are asking yourself "is it a zap or not" or if the sensation takes a short while to develop, it's most likely not a zap.
     
  17. Jul 22, 2019 #17

    Cutetaxguy

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    I found the mistake

    I was not compensating for the almond cream which I can’t find a sap value for anywhere

    OK this is driving me bonkers. I am now making a second batch for today without any cream and have the same problem my pH is at 11 I don’t get it

    Oh it’s a full on zap attack, and I can notice it getting milder as I add more oils


    I have a pack of ph test strips. I went back and tested every batch I have made over the past few days and they all are at a 9 ph.
    I don’t know what is different today.
    ( maybe I need to change batteries in my scale)

    I have a small open wound on my thumb. The lye burned my wound like all heck. That’s what led me to test the soap.
    My next guess is the scales. My soap is never ph heave after the mash potatoe phase until these last couple of days
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2019
  18. Jul 22, 2019 #18

    lenarenee

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    Yep, small wound on the thumb means active lye. Hope you rinsed with lots of cool water. (not vinegar)

    I've never heard of almond cream; is it almond milk? almond butter? Usually those items contain extra fats - which would help eat up more lye, and reduce the chance of having a lye heavy soap, so that may not be the problem.

    The pH will NOT tell you if the soap is lye heavy. You don't need to test the ph at all. (I mentioned pH earlier because a high pH is harsh on the tongue. I don't agree with those who say a zap is a zap - I think there are degrees of zappiness. Plus, I have trouble telling very raw fresh salt soap batter from slightly zappy because the salt and pH have their own zing!)

    The scales are suspect.

    What about the oils themselves? Some expensive oils like olive, avocado can be adulterated with cheaper oils that can through off the sap values. ( You used a 5% sf, so it would take quite a lot of adulterated oils to run through all that.)

    You didn't mention where the recipe came from, and if you ran it through a lye calculator. Even if you used a recipe given to you from another soapmaker - it needs to be run through the calculator.

    If you did use a lye calculator - check the settings for the lye. Is there one for the purity level of the lye that might be set incorrectly, or the calculations programmed into the system are based on (for example) a lye that's 94% pure, but your lye beads might actually be really fresh and 99% pure.

    So sorry about your thumb! Take good care of it - lye burns can go though all the layers of the skin and take a long time to heal.
     
  19. Jul 22, 2019 #19

    DeeAnna

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    I think there are degrees of zap too, but the zap sensation, however strong or mild it might be, is immediate for me. That immediacy is the common denominator.
     
  20. Jul 27, 2019 #20

    Cutetaxguy

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    The scales were calabrated and were correct.
    The recipe is of my own making and ran through “SoapLab” lye calculator. A calculator I have been using successfully for several recipes now. I have never used a pre established recipe. All self formulated and this is the first time I have had any lye issues. Lye purity is set at 100% Been using red devil lye ,
    As to counterfeit oils ......well that I have no defense to. I’m not an oil’s guy and need to relie on proper labels. I still have yet to solve the lye issue but have established that if i add an additional 10 % of total oil weight in coconut oil the problem seems to correct. Source of problem remains a frustrating mystery. Not really sure how the soap will turn out. I fear my last several batches may be a complete failure , and this is just as I’m actually getting interesed customers. A bit ironic and even more frustrating.
    I have ran out of both lye and avocado oil. I also make sage smudge sticks and sold 2 today. This will allow me to buy some more lye at least. I do make a salt scrub bar that is getting attention. Maybe I can focus on those for a bit and just hope these trun out okay. I really thought I was finally getting the hang of this. Then this all happened

    ( I can’t seem to get the quotes function to work ....sigh ....this is to Deanna)

    Though this is my first experience with getting zapped it dose fit the discription of what is discribed as being zapped. The only reason I did the zap test was because when the soap touched my small open wound it burned like ....starts with H and rhythms with hell... this led me to also ph test. As I added small amounts of coconut oil to the batch and with each addition the. zapping became less and the ph correspondingly dropped. At an additional 10% of oil weight the zapping stopped and I had a 9 ph I was hot processing and just near gel phase when all this started.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2019

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