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Amount of TD in Water?

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TheaMay

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I have premixed TD in a squirt bottle TD 1:1 water. I read that it is recommended to use 1 teaspoons ppo but it seemed to do little to lighten the oils. I have ball bearings in the bottle so I'm sure it was mixed well. I'm a little confused if the 1 tsp ppo recommendation is for dry TD or for dispersed TD ? I didn't want to add more for fear of getting glycerin rivers and adding to much water especially since I'm working with very small amounts of oils. Would it be better to make a stronger mixture ie. 2:1, so as not to mess so much with the water discount of my recipe?
 

Obsidian

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1 tsp ppo is the dry measurement. When I mix mine, I do 2 part TD, 1 part water.
I don't premix though, I just mix up what I need for each batch.
 

TheaMay

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1 tsp ppo is the dry measurement. When I mix mine, I do 2 part TD, 1 part water.
I don't premix though, I just mix up what I need for each batch.
Thanks for clarifying that. About how much 2:1 what you add ppo?
 

Obsidian

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I really don't know. I measure out the TD I need for my batch then add water until its the consistency I want.
If I was using premixed, I would keep adding until I got the color I want.
 

TheGecko

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The 1 tea PPO is dry, so if you do a 2 to 1 mix, then you would need to add 2 tea. Or just add what you want to get the color you want.
 

Orla

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OMIGOD, I was just about to put up a message with the title "How to make TD disappear." Because I too master that trick! I'm a bit miffed. The TD I bought didn't indicate whether it was water or oil soluble. It definitely was water soluble - it dissolved faster than you could blink. I was nonetheless hoping that it might ALSO dissolve in oil. And so I blended it with castor oil in the nutribullet and it came out very creamy. Accent on the 'very' - to the point that my biceps got a good workout getting it out of the bottle. Invariably (although unanticipated on my part) the staineless steel bolts all popped out and into the batter. And then had to be fished out (while the clock of the thickening batter was loudly ticking). Despite all these efforts, one full tablespoon (ie 1 teaspoon of TD) in just 200 grams of batter DISAPPEARED entirely.
Like Thea May, I am loath to squander water on TD. I do very small batches normally - my biggest ever (yesterday) was 1027 gms (2.2 pounds), and the wretched disappearing act took place in that batch; bfff... And I'm all the more stingy about my water because now I'm master-batching my lye and that takes up precious water that I would prefer to have bestowed on the milk.
So, QUESTION: Can water-soluble TD be mixed with anything else more interesting than water? Or, can you master-batch lye with anything more interesting than water?
Also, apart from this begrudgingness of water, I feel like I've done more maths calculations in the last three months than collectively over the duration of my previous life. So, the idea of trying to do more maths for portions of the batter getting added water makes my head spin...I actually quite like all the maths, but even I would balk at that...
 

TheaMay

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OMIGOD, I was just about to put up a message with the title "How to make TD disappear." Because I too master that trick! I'm a bit miffed. The TD I bought didn't indicate whether it was water or oil soluble. It definitely was water soluble - it dissolved faster than you could blink. I was nonetheless hoping that it might ALSO dissolve in oil. And so I blended it with castor oil in the nutribullet and it came out very creamy. Accent on the 'very' - to the point that my biceps got a good workout getting it out of the bottle. Invariably (although unanticipated on my part) the staineless steel bolts all popped out and into the batter. And then had to be fished out (while the clock of the thickening batter was loudly ticking). Despite all these efforts, one full tablespoon (ie 1 teaspoon of TD) in just 200 grams of batter DISAPPEARED entirely.
Like Thea May, I am loath to squander water on TD. I do very small batches normally - my biggest ever (yesterday) was 1027 gms (2.2 pounds), and the wretched disappearing act took place in that batch; bfff... And I'm all the more stingy about my water because now I'm master-batching my lye and that takes up precious water that I would prefer to have bestowed on the milk.
So, QUESTION: Can water-soluble TD be mixed with anything else more interesting than water? Or, can you master-batch lye with anything more interesting than water?
Also, apart from this begrudgingness of water, I feel like I've done more maths calculations in the last three months than collectively over the duration of my previous life. So, the idea of trying to do more maths for portions of the batter getting added water makes my head spin...I actually quite like all the maths, but even I would balk at that...
I have no idea cause I'm totally new to soap making but it will be interesting to see what the experts on here say. 1 full tablespoon in 200 grams and it did very little, only leaves me wondering just how much extra water some people may add and just how much this could contribute to rivers.
 

Orla

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I am going to do some swatch tests this evening (more maths!!!). And I will get back to you. I am wondering what's at the bottom of this oil/water soluble distinction... But I will give you the results of my tests tomorrow.
 

TheaMay

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Thank you Orla, I know exactly what you mean re maths! Will be looking forward to hearing about your results
 

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OMIGOD, I was just about to put up a message with the title "How to make TD disappear." Because I too master that trick! I'm a bit miffed. The TD I bought didn't indicate whether it was water or oil soluble. It definitely was water soluble - it dissolved faster than you could blink. I was nonetheless hoping that it might ALSO dissolve in oil. And so I blended it with castor oil in the nutribullet and it came out very creamy. Accent on the 'very' - to the point that my biceps got a good workout getting it out of the bottle. Invariably (although unanticipated on my part) the staineless steel bolts all popped out and into the batter. And then had to be fished out (while the clock of the thickening batter was loudly ticking). Despite all these efforts, one full tablespoon (ie 1 teaspoon of TD) in just 200 grams of batter DISAPPEARED entirely.
Like Thea May, I am loath to squander water on TD. I do very small batches normally - my biggest ever (yesterday) was 1027 gms (2.2 pounds), and the wretched disappearing act took place in that batch; bfff... And I'm all the more stingy about my water because now I'm master-batching my lye and that takes up precious water that I would prefer to have bestowed on the milk.
So, QUESTION: Can water-soluble TD be mixed with anything else more interesting than water? Or, can you master-batch lye with anything more interesting than water?
Also, apart from this begrudgingness of water, I feel like I've done more maths calculations in the last three months than collectively over the duration of my previous life. So, the idea of trying to do more maths for portions of the batter getting added water makes my head spin...I actually quite like all the maths, but even I would balk at that...
Did you stick blend the TD in after you added it or did you just stir it? Stirring doesnt work for me. I have to SB for several seconds to get it to incorporate. I’ve used both water and glycerin to mix my TD and use the least amount possible to just get it pourable.
 

Orla

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I have my doubts on that, Jersey Girl. The beauty of pre-mixing is that if done properly it can just be stirred in. That would be my feeling. And in any event, if that were the problem, we would see streaks - which is not the case.
I have two running hypotheses. One is that water-soluble titanium dioxide is somehow very different from oil soluble, so that the 1:3 ratio of my premixed TD/castor oil was much weaker than it would have been if I had used oil-soluble TD.
The other hypothesis is that experienced soapers actually use more TD than 1 tsp (I'm talking powder here) PPO - they just "eyeball" it (as you guys say... )
Anyway, I will conduct tests this evening, so watch this space!!!
 

Jersey Girl

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I have my doubts on that, Jersey Girl. The beauty of pre-mixing is that if done properly it can just be stirred in. That would be my feeling. And in any event, if that were the problem, we would see streaks - which is not the case.
I have two running hypotheses. One is that water-soluble titanium dioxide is somehow very different from oil soluble, so that the 1:3 ratio of my premixed TD/castor oil was much weaker than it would have been if I had used oil-soluble TD.
The other hypothesis is that experienced soapers actually use more TD than 1 tsp (I'm talking powder here) PPO - they just "eyeball" it (as you guys say... )
Anyway, I will conduct tests this evening, so watch this space!!!
I only use a small amount of TD if at all per batch. Probably a couple tsp at most. I dont measure but eyeball as you mentioned. Ive tried stirring it in but don’t see the color change but a few zaps with the SB makes all the difference. You should at least try it.
 

dibbles

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I don't use TD often, and when I do use it I eyeball it too. I agree with Jersey Girl - stick blending makes a big difference, at least with water soluble TD. I think oil soluble is better able to be stirred in. I find the same to be true of activated charcoal, and to a lesser extent black and white micas.
 

blueginkgo

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I only use a small amount of TD if at all per batch. Probably a couple tsp at most. I dont measure but eyeball as you mentioned. Ive tried stirring it in but don’t see the color change but a few zaps with the SB makes all the difference. You should at least try it.
Same for me. TD dispersed in water and hand stirred into batter, whether with a spatula or whisk, produces very little color change. The same amount mixed in with a stick blender almost instantly shows a much lighter color.
 

penelopejane

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I have no idea cause I'm totally new to soap making but it will be interesting to see what the experts on here say. 1 full tablespoon in 200 grams and it did very little, only leaves me wondering just how much extra water some people may add and just how much this could contribute to rivers.
I’m really pedantic about water with additives. I use the recipe water only. If I split a batch I add back plain water to the section I didn’t use colour or TD to.
another alternative is to mix your TD with glycerine Because it doesn’t effect the water levels and doesn’t need to be counted as an oil but you have to be careful as too much will make your soap soft.

Using a SB to stir colours into a batch makes a huge difference for the colour activated charcoal turns out, too.
 

Orla

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Hi to all, to be honest SBing in the TD is really not an option for me - I sail very close to the wind as it is: I need to keep temperatures as low as I can as I have high unsats and high sugar. Seeing as the TD I bought does seem to blend with oils, I think I'll just have to experiment with the dose. Here's a photo of the soap and you will see the not-very-white (identical to un-TD'd soap in my view) part that was actually generously TD'd. It's a mystery to me. (Some of you will recognise the Teri Endsley (of Tree Marie Soapworks) inspiration. It was pictures of her soap that actually inspired me to take up soap-making. I just have this incredible admiration for her!)

EDIT: God, edit that! some of you will recognise a very poor imitation of Teri Endsely.
SECOND EDIT: the orange was also mixed with TD - though, again, no sign of it...
 

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Jersey Girl

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Hi to all, to be honest SBing in the TD is really not an option for me - I sail very close to the wind as it is: I need to keep temperatures as low as I can as I have high unsats and high sugar. Seeing as the TD I bought does seem to blend with oils, I think I'll just have to experiment with the dose. Here's a photo of the soap and you will see the not-very-white (identical to un-TD'd soap in my view) part that was actually generously TD'd. It's a mystery to me. (Some of you will recognise the Teri Endsley (of Tree Marie Soapworks) inspiration. It was pictures of her soap that actually inspired me to take up soap-making. I just have this incredible admiration for her
Help me understand what the lower temperature would have to do with using a SB for a few secs to incorporate the premixed TD into batter. I’m not following the logic. Always up for learning!
 

Orla

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Help me understand what the lower temperature would have to do with using a SB for a few secs to incorporate the premixed TD into batter. I’m not following the logic. Always up for learning!
Goodness Jersey Girl I suspect you know a lot more about soaping than I do, but high temperatures speed up tracing - as does the SB !!
 

Jersey Girl

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Goodness Jersey Girl I suspect you know a lot more about soaping than I do, but high temperatures speed up tracing - as does the SB !!
So does adding TD to some extent but if your temps are low and you use it for just a few seconds you should be fine. I absolutely cannot incorporate TD into my batter without it. My other micas I stir/whisk in fine. TD is a different animal in my experience. Like I said before, try it...you might like it! I use very little TD to get a nice white. The stick blender is the secret.
 
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