Amino acid soap Base

[Hani m. Amaik]

Hi, I've recently tried to add more Glutamic Acid without increasing NaOH. The soap was still producing foam, with a lower SAP Value. In a more recent attempt, I've increased Glutamic Acid from 5% to 15% in the recipe and reduced NaOH from 14 to 9. The result was that the soap was still producing good foam, the pH dropped down to 7, and the soap became milder and more hydrating. However, higher Glutamic Acid made the soap thinner (more liquid) and prone to breaking or separating. Thank.

 

[AliOop]

Hi, I've recently tried to add more Glutamic Acid without increasing NaOH. The soap was still producing foam, with a lower SAP Value. In a more recent attempt, I've increased Glutamic Acid from 5% to 15% in the recipe and reduced NaOH from 14 to 9. The result was that the soap was still producing good foam, the pH dropped down to 7, and the soap became milder and more hydrating. However, higher Glutamic Acid made the soap thinner (more liquid) and prone to breaking or separating. Thank.

It is the lower pH that is causing it to separate. It doesn't matter if that is caused by the glutamic acid, citric acid, or any other acidic, pH-lowering ingredient.

Remember, soap cannot remain soap in the technical, chemical sense (salt of a fatty acid) if it drops below 8 pH if I remember correctly (might be 9?) It will always separate or break at that point.

What are you using the measure your pH?

 

[Hani m. Amaik]

It is the lower pH that is causing it to separate. It doesn't matter if that is caused by the glutamic acid, citric acid, or any other acidic, pH-lowering ingredient.

Remember, soap cannot remain soap in the technical, chemical sense (salt of a fatty acid) if it drops below 8 pH if I remember correctly (might be 9?) It will always separate or break at that point.

What are you using the measure your pH?

Thanks AliOop,

For pH, I'm using MN (Machery-Nagel). The recent recipe measured 6.

There's a solution to separating that I used a few times. It's a sulphate-free anionic surfactant called Diterol g50. Adding Diterol prevents separation and maintains pH. The only downside of Diterol is its colour, as I'm trying to maintain white colour.

 

[Hani m. Amaik]

It is the lower pH that is causing it to separate. It doesn't matter if that is caused by the glutamic acid, citric acid, or any other acidic, pH-lowering ingredient.

Remember, soap cannot remain soap in the technical, chemical sense (salt of a fatty acid) if it drops below 8 pH if I remember correctly (might be 9?) It will always separate or break at that point.

What are you using the measure your pH?

Regarding naming, I totally agree with you. The current recipe is a mixture of different sodium Salts, mainly sodium laurate, sodium myristate and sodium oleate; these makes about 80 % of the compound. Other ingredients that are produced according to the sequence, temperature and phases are sodium citrate and sodium lactate, sodium tocopherol acetate (acetic or ethonoic acid are produced from the aerobic degradation or oxidation of ethanol after 24 hours), sodium acetate, disodium glutamate, other derivatives and minor metabolites. Adding more vitamins like panthenol and niacinamide produces more compound. So, I think that it's a hybrid syndet more than a soap. It's mainly an anionic and amphoteric surfactant, maybe more than a syndet, because most syndets contain petroleum compounds. Similar compounds are called Amino Acid Surfactants.

 

[Hani m. Amaik]

Regarding separation, yes, I think that it's below 8 pH. At 7 pH, it becomes critical and mostly requires a modification in the ingredients, or incorporating new ingredients that improve solubility or emulsification. However, some of the pure fatty acids have more emulsification capacity, like oleic and myristic acids, and can hold in a lower pH environment.

AliOop, what I really wish to find is a safe, colourless and odorless compound that can hold the mixture ( other than Diterol, Citeol HE and Betaine which I also tried).

Thanks again for your time, reading, and taking the time to reply.

 

[AliOop]

Regarding separation, yes, I think that it's below 8 pH. At 7 pH, it becomes critical and mostly requires a modification in the ingredients, or incorporating new ingredients that improve solubility or emulsification. However, some of the pure fatty acids have more emulsification capacity, like oleic and myristic acids, and can hold in a lower pH environment.

AliOop, what I really wish to find is a safe, colourless and odorless compound that can hold the mixture ( other than Diterol, Citeol HE and Betaine which I also tried).

Thanks again for your time, reading, and taking the time to reply.

Thank you for clarifying that you are talking about a syndet wash, not a true soap. That was my understanding, but it is important to be clear about terms for those members who aren't aware of the differences, and the fact that you cannot have a true soap that is below 8pH. It would be great if you could be sure to refer to it as a syndet since it will otherwise confuse them.

Back to your wash, it does sound great. Hope you will keep us updated as to how the formulating goes.

 

[Hani m. Amaik]

Thank you for clarifying that you are talking about a syndet wash, not a true soap. That was my understanding, but it is important to be clear about terms for those members who aren't aware of the differences, and the fact that you cannot have a true soap that is below 8pH. It would be great if you could be sure to refer to it as a syndet since it will otherwise confuse them.

Back to your wash, it does sound great. Hope you will keep us updated as to how the formulating goes.

Thank you AliOop, I'll do that from now on. I'm happy to keep you updated, and also wish to learn about any relevant information.

 

[AliOop]

Thank you AliOop, I'll do that from now on. I'm happy to keep you updated, and also wish to learn about any relevant information.

Well, I've been fascinated by your experiments and appreciate you sharing what you have learned.

 

[Hani m. Amaik]

Dear all
I found out from Instagram that there is one amino acid soap base which looks absolute transparent. My question is that how amino acid soap base is different from the Trandparend melt and pour soap base.
There is not much information on net.Though it says that it is good for the skin...
Does anyone know?

Hi,

I've been reading a few articles about using Triethanolamine for making surfactants. I've decided to share some of the links because summarising it will still be too much to post here. Triethanolamine is a tertiary amine, while glutamic acid, aspartic acid, l-arginine (and similar) are α-amino acids. Triethanolamine neutralizes fatty acids. As a result, it improves the efficiency of fatty acid reactions with the metal hydroxide, improves emulsification, lather, foaming, and transparency. However, there are safety concerns associated with potential harmful byproducts of Triethanolamine. Amino acid-based surfactants are called so because they contain α-amino and not necessarily tertiary amines like Triethanolamine.

Please see Applications:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triethanolamine
Making Transparent Soap with triethanolamine:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US2820768A/en
Safety Concerns:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/n-nitrosodiethanolamine
Thanks.

 

[candipill]

Yvonne's video & recipe



【配方/Recipe】
椰油醯基谷胺酸/Cocoyl glutamic acid: 350g
丙二醇/propylene glycol: 90g
甘油/glycerin: 100g
純水/purified water: 175g
三乙醇胺/triethanol amine: 250g
茉莉花瓣香精/demure jasmine petals fragrance oil: 20ml
氨基酸起泡劑/sodium lauroyl methylaminopropionate: 35g
金箔/gold foil: 適量/moderate

Wow, thank you - I have been looking all over for the measurements, could not figure out how much to use of each. My recipe doesnt call for sodium lauroyl methylaminoproportionate though - I wonder if it is okay to leave out

 

[HoppyCosmetics]

As far as im aware, cocoyl glutamic acid contains 1 amino acid, glutamate. And its a mild surfactant, and a detergent. You need 9 essential amino acids to make a complete protein.

Im probably way off topic here, but ive done the research into amino acids, and there is an additive that adds amino acids to your soap and thats Silk Amino Acid (Tussah Silk). Its a natural peptide. Sericin is a protein created by silkworms. Its taken from inside the cucoon of caterpillars. Its contains 18 amino acids (essential & non-essential), and is a natural source for skincare. Its water soluble. In powder form, you use it in small amounts, so for cold process soap, add a small pinch per pound of oil, and add it to the lye solution. In liquid form, use up to 5%. You can also use it in melt & pour. There's a few videos online of people using it, and there's an article by the soap queen at bramble berry...

Click Here