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Arimara

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Wait, are they cured or not? And 10 day cure is pretty short.

So they must be hot process? Or confused?
Hot Processed soaps do not cure any faster than Cold Processed soaps. They can actually take longer to cure. And yes, 10 days is a short amount of time. This place is in Canada and not too far from Buffalo. As it stands, that's a trip and a half for me.
 

WeaversPort

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Hot Processed soaps do not cure any faster than Cold Processed soaps. They can actually take longer to cure. And yes, 10 days is a short amount of time. This place is in Canada and not too far from Buffalo. As it stands, that's a trip and a half for me.
This may be a silly question, but why would hot process take longer? I read some people using hot process soap in 48 hours because all of the lye has already reacted.
 

Arimara

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This may be a silly question, but why would hot process take longer? I read some people using hot process soap in 48 hours because all of the lye has already reacted.
A lot of people confuse curing with saponification. Saponification is the process where the lye is being "inactivated" for lack of better words and bonding with the oil molecules (Someone please correct my terminology if I am horribly wrong here). The end result is that your soap will lather. However what many of those soap bloggers either don't know or fail to acknowledge is that allowing/forcing your cold process soaps to gel also speeds up the saponification process. Because you generally use less water in cold process than you would hot, it can actually take a little less time for cold process soaps to cure.

Curing is the aging process of a soap, so to speak. Just like with wine and cheese going through an aging process to develop their flavors, curing soaps develops the soaps saponified attributes. The longer a soap cures, the better it [should] become. Because this change happens on a molecular level, it can take at least 4 weeks before you might start to see some goodness coming from your soap. It's still dependent on your recipes but a properly cured soap is the best soap for your skin.

I hope I was clear enough. I'm kind of winding down.
 

IrishLass

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WeaversPort said:
This may be a silly question, but why would hot process take longer? I read some people using hot process soap in 48 hours because all of the lye has already reacted
Ditto 100% what Arimara said- "A lot of people confuse curing with saponification."

The following statement is much more a chemistry reality than it is a brag/boast, ;) but my gelled CP is much harder than my HP soap and can be used within 24 hours (the lye gets completely reacted in the gel-stage). But it gets so much better and lasts so much longer with a good cure (as does my HP).

Here is our DeeAnna's wonderful treatise on what happens to a soap at the molecular level during cure (there's much more going on after the initial saponification than meets the eye):

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?p=634104#post634104 (keep reading all of DeeAnna'a posts down the page)


IrishLass :)
 

WeaversPort

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Thank you Arimara and IrishLass for helping explain!

Ditto 100% what Arimara said- "A lot of people confuse curing with saponification."

The following statement is much more a chemistry reality than it is a brag/boast, ;) but my gelled CP is much harder than my HP soap and can be used within 24 hours (the lye gets completely reacted in the gel-stage). But it gets so much better and lasts so much longer with a good cure (as does my HP).
Gelling, that's what people are doing when they do the oven process finishing? Am I understanding correctly?
 

Susie

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Ditto 100% what Arimara said- "A lot of people confuse curing with saponification."

The following statement is much more a chemistry reality than it is a brag/boast, ;) but my gelled CP is much harder than my HP soap and can be used within 24 hours (the lye gets completely reacted in the gel-stage). But it gets so much better and lasts so much longer with a good cure (as does my HP).

Here is our DeeAnna's wonderful treatise on what happens to a soap at the molecular level during cure (there's much more going on after the initial saponification than meets the eye):

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?p=634104#post634104 (keep reading all of DeeAnna'a posts down the page)


IrishLass :)
I was going looking for exactly those posts when I saw you posted them! DeeAnna is just phenomenal at explaining the incomprehensible in a manner even I can understand.
 

cerelife

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And then there's THIS:
http://skinlicious.com/product-category/handmade-soaps-home/fragrance-oil-soaps/

"Fragrance Oil Soaps
These soaps are 98-99% natural, and contain no artificial scents! They are always cut to 7oz BIG – about twice the size of our competition’s bars!"

Wow...I'm astounded at the bald-faced <ahem> untruths on this site!! Does even the most naive of customers actually believe that 'baby powder' or 'pumpkin pie' scents aren't artificial??
 

DeeAnna

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I do think we can be rather harsh at times. It is so very tempting to pick things apart and be overly critical when we personally "don't have any dog in the fight." And there's a pack mentality that gets going in these discussions that can make matters worse.

That said, I truly don't care for business people who build their business by promoting their products with inaccurate pseudo-science, weasel words, and bad-mouthing. It shows a level of immaturity, lack of knowledge, and even a degree of hostility toward others that is unflattering and detrimental.

There's no problem with promoting one's products the best way one knows how to do -- I certainly do on my business website! -- but I think it's also important to keep it factual, accurate, and kind.
 

WeaversPort

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Here is our DeeAnna's wonderful treatise on what happens to a soap at the molecular level during cure (there's much more going on after the initial saponification than meets the eye):

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?p=634104#post634104 (keep reading all of DeeAnna'a posts down the page)
I was going looking for exactly those posts when I saw you posted them! DeeAnna is just phenomenal at explaining the incomprehensible in a manner even I can understand.
Wow! I had no idea my soaps were so busy as they sit in my soap box. I think after that explanation I'm even more fascinated by the process. It makes me wish I had a microscope to watch my mini soap cosmos in action. Thank you for the links, and thank you DeeAnna for taking the time to share the understanding with us!

And then there's THIS:
http://skinlicious.com/product-category/handmade-soaps-home/fragrance-oil-soaps/

"Fragrance Oil Soaps
These soaps are 98-99% natural, and contain no artificial scents! They are always cut to 7oz BIG – about twice the size of our competition’s bars!"

Wow...I'm astounded at the bald-faced <ahem> untruths on this site!! Does even the most naive of customers actually believe that 'baby powder' or 'pumpkin pie' scents aren't artificial??
But surely you get baby powder scent from dehydrated babies??
 

WeaversPort

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Yes, I'm afraid many do. If you haunt the Facebook soaping groups for awhile, you'll see a fair number of soapers who don't know any better. A few get pretty miffed about it too. So I'm sure there are many, many consumers who don't have a clue either.

"Essential oil" is such a buzz phrase -- people really don't know what an EO is unless they seriously look into it. It's easy to be misled by the hype when a person hasn't studied the topic much.
Especially because I've seen some fragrance oil sellers advertise that some of their fragrances are made with natural and essential oils. You might have a pumpkin pie scent where they use clove essential oil and the rest of it completely lab made - but that oil would be listed under the category of fragrances with natural oils in it.. :-?
 

LilyJo

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Especially because I've seen some fragrance oil sellers advertise that some of their fragrances are made with natural and essential oils. You might have a pumpkin pie scent where they use clove essential oil and the rest of it completely lab made - but that oil would be listed under the category of fragrances with natural oils in it.. :-?
And that is what a lot of the big names do (including Lush). They say its made wih EO but when you look at the ingredients its EO blended with FO. By saying that it blurs the lines for people so they think that you can buy Bubblegum EO!
 

Seawolfe

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I do think we can be rather harsh at times. It is so very tempting to pick things apart and be overly critical when we personally "don't have any dog in the fight." And there's a pack mentality that gets going in these discussions that can make matters worse.

That said, I truly don't care for business people who build their business by promoting their products with inaccurate pseudo-science, weasel words, and bad-mouthing. It shows a level of immaturity, lack of knowledge, and even a degree of hostility toward others that is unflattering and detrimental.

There's no problem with promoting one's products the best way one knows how to do -- I certainly do on my business website! -- but I think it's also important to keep it factual, accurate, and kind.
^^^ THIS! SO MUCH THIS!!
There is no reason ever to lie, or bring other products down when describing your own.
 

Steve85569

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This thread is both humorous and tragic at the same time.

Tragic that someone would think they need to go to these lengths to sell a product. The fact that it's soap only adds to the problem.

Humorous that the level of promotion is just, well, ridiculous to anyone that actually makes soap and is even attempting to learn the facts about what we do and what the process is.

This is what makes people think soap makers are a bit "off". because of the claims.
Still funny to the informed.
 

Spice

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During a recent trip to a gigantic craft show, I bought a couple of soaps for comparison sake to mine, and for research into labeling. One of them was very poorly labelled so I went to the web site to see if it was better there. Under the FAQ's I found this:
" Because, the XXXX XXXX® is all natural, cold process soap, and contains no SLS or Parabens, it is far better than any store or boutique bought soaps. But because it’s also completely cured soap (ready to use), it has now completed its chemical reaction and so it’s no longer secreting rich oils, which in an raw soap, help soothe and nourish dry, itchy skin."

This is nonsense, right?
This is an over zealous soap maker. When I describe my soaps, I am there too. My is the best. My eo's are better because I pay more. I don't use cheap bulk herbs......now what would happen if I didn't do that? Not all soap is created equal. Some are better then others. Dove is the best to some....I think Dove is the worst. The "my..." is just an example. I don't think that. But my soap is the best....what can I say...my kids are the best too.:bunny:
 
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