Am I hearing this?

[TheGecko]

It's slowly dawned on me that I think some of our most advanced soapers are saying that they no longer use "luxury" oils (e.g. castor, sweet almond, emu, baobab, babassu, etc., etc.) because once the lye is finished with them, all of their "luxury" features are gone. So, they only stick to base oils (olive, palm, coconut, lard, etc.).

Is that what advanced soapers believe? Or am I getting the wrong impression?

“Luxury” is subjective. I consider Castor Oil to be a base oil...and at 5% it’s not expensive. Like many soapers, I tried a lot of different oils and butters and finally settled on Olive, Coconut, Palm and Castor Oils, and Cocoa and Shea Butter in my regular soap. Considering that I’m still buying my supplies in 1 lb and 7 lbs quantities, my ingredient costs for a regular unscented bar is $1.07. EOs and FOs are actually my most expensive ingredient and can add $0.60 to $1.25 to a bar.

I am looking at making a ‘luxury’ soap...something decadent, fancy box, fancy shape, limited edition. But in the end, it’s still soap.

 

[Lin19687]

Castor I don't think (IMO) is Luxury but it is expensive and the most expensive item on my recipe. More then my Shea.
When you are looking at selling you have to weigh in the $$ to make it and the $$ you will get back to make a profit. So things like Emu Oil just are not worth it in the end, nor do they really survive the Lye Monster to make it worth it.

 

[GML]

I have a recipe that has sweet almond oil and cocoa butter that is a bit more bubbly and creamy than my regular recipe. I used mango butter in a soap and it did come out harder and lasted longer. However, I don’t think those small results are enough for me to use these more expensive fats in my soap where the cost is pretty low per bar.

Next to olive oil, castor is my next expensive oil but I don’t think it is a luxury fat. ETA - I don’t hot process much but I often hear that the luxury fats are used after the cook for superfatting because the lye won’t use it up and the benefits are retained. I’d be interested in more studies about that.

I do add shea butter as part of my SF after the soap has finished cooking. I may make a batch without the shea and see if I can tell the difference between the two.

 

[maxine289]

Recently, I've been working with CO, OO, RBO, castor oil (which is not a luxury IMHO), soy wax, and shea butter (thank you KiwiMoose, I've tried your recipe and quite like it!) and a little avocado for label appeal. I don't use palm/lard/tallow. The shea and soy create a REALLY hard bar. Other than cocoa butter early on, I never went for the other exotic or luxury oils because of cost.

 

[jcandleattic]

I personally don't consider (as others) castor, nor Almond oil as luxury oils. I use them in almost all of my soaps at 5% each.

 

[Arimara]

Castor I don't think (IMO) is Luxury but it is expensive and the most expensive item on my recipe. More then my Shea.
When you are looking at selling you have to weigh in the $$ to make it and the $$ you will get back to make a profit. So things like Emu Oil just are not worth it in the end, nor do they really survive the Lye Monster to make it worth it.

Where are you getting you castor oil from? That oil is usually cheap when I get it.

@OP, I occasionally will splurge on Babassu oil since it's nicer than coconut in soap. Cocoa and shea butters are easily obtained where I live and less expensive than their online prices (though the shea butter will more often be the yellow variety). The only luxury oil I might not consider again is Olive pomace, considering the expense. Some of you may get it cheaper than olive oil but for me, it's pricey and only a step better than olive oil.

 

[Lin19687]

@Arimara it comes out to be $0.17 per Ounce, my Shea comes to .13 per oz

 

[Arimara]

@Lin19687 $2.73 for 16oz of castor is pretty good, if you ask me. I'm not even going to begin with the shea butter. I'm lucky enough to get that without paying shipping costs.

 

[Lin19687]

@Lin19687 $2.73 for 16oz of castor is pretty good, if you ask me. I'm not even going to begin with the shea butter. I'm lucky enough to get that without paying shipping costs.

Me too but it is still considered $$

 

[TheGecko]

.....and a little avocado for label appeal

And IMHO, that's pretty much what a lot of those expensive oils and butters come down to.

Cut to scene at brunch with the girls at the ye old private country club......

Karen: "I'm telling you girls, I owe my perfect skin to the soap made with Emu Oil."

Beth: "Mine is the best as it is infused with gold and diamond powder and cost $2500 a bar."

Tiffany: "Well MY soap is sprinkled with fairy dust gathered by skyclad virgins under a blue moon on the second Tuesday of the week."

"Ladies", says TheGecko as she serves them their fancy extra, extra-dry vodka martinis with a twist (aka vodka with a lemon rind), "you are being scammed. There are no benefits to using Emu Oil in soap given the small amount that is being used...might as well use Mineral Oil. Diamond is the hardest abrasive known to man so all you are doing is scratching the hell out of your skin and leaving yourself open to all sorts of infections. Fairies don't exist and there is only one Tuesday in a week. BTW Karen, Emu Oil is extracted from the thick fat on the Emu's back. To remove the oil and the surrounding fat, the Emu has to be killed. "

 

[Arimara]

@TheGecko Telling the people the truth?

Scandelous!

 

[TheGecko]

The only luxury oil I might not consider again is Olive pomace, considering the expense. Some of you may get it cheaper than olive oil but for me, it's pricey and only a step better than olive oil.

Olive Oil Pomace isn’t a luxury oil...it’s a by-product of producing olive oil. If you’re being charge more than regular Olive Oil, then you need to find another supplier.

 

[GML]

I don't know if this has already been discussed, but is their a list on which suppliers provide the best prices for base oils?

 

[SoapySuds]

I often think, if I made soap from 100% rose absolute (rose essential) oil, who would buy a $1000 two ounce bar of soap? If it was flecked with gold leaf, would I be able to charge $2000 for a two ounce soap bar?

And then I think, who has that kind of money? Definitely not me!

I stick to coconut, palm, and whatever else is on sale and not gmo. It’s soap. It goes on skin and washes off, I use my jojoba for my face, it’s so nice, why would I waste it in soap?

 

[dixiedragon]

I wouldn't consider myself advanced, but I have been soaping for almost 20 years. I also no longer use luxury oils in my soaps.

However, I always include castor! I don't consider it a luxury oil - it's not all that expensive. If you don't want to order online, see if you have a Vitamin Shoppe locally. They have oils - castor, sweet almond, etc, in 4 oz containers and 8 oz containers, and its' a better price than Whole Foods.

My base recipe is:
Coconut
Castor
Olive
Lard
Ricebran
Sunflower

 

[dixiedragon]

I don't know if this has already been discussed, but is their a list on which suppliers provide the best prices for base oils?

If you are buying in bulk, Soaper's Choice.
https://soaperschoice.com/

Costco is good for Olive and Avocado.

You can also see if you have a local restaurant supply store. Mine is called Restaurant Depot.

 

[sirtim100]

And IMHO, that's pretty much what a lot of those expensive oils and butters come down to.

Cut to scene at brunch with the girls at the ye old private country club......

Karen: "I'm telling you girls, I owe my perfect skin to the soap made with Emu Oil."

Beth: "Mine is the best as it is infused with gold and diamond powder and cost $2500 a bar."

Tiffany: "Well MY soap is sprinkled with fairy dust gathered by skyclad virgins under a blue moon on the second Tuesday of the week."

"Ladies", says TheGecko as she serves them their fancy extra, extra-dry vodka martinis with a twist (aka vodka with a lemon rind), "you are being scammed. There are no benefits to using Emu Oil in soap given the small amount that is being used...might as well use Mineral Oil. Diamond is the hardest abrasive known to man so all you are doing is scratching the hell out of your skin and leaving yourself open to all sorts of infections. Fairies don't exist and there is only one Tuesday in a week. BTW Karen, Emu Oil is extracted from the thick fat on the Emu's back. To remove the oil and the surrounding fat, the Emu has to be killed. "

Well I've looked for "fairy dust gathered by skyclad virgins under a blue moon on the second Tuesday of the week" on Amazon and I can't find it anywhere. Is there a reputable dealer? And does it speed up trace?

 

[GML]

If you are buying in bulk, Soaper's Choice.
https://soaperschoice.com/

Costco is good for Olive and Avocado.

You can also see if you have a local restaurant supply store. Mine is called Restaurant Depot.

I usually get my OO at Costco which dropped their price from 23.99 to 19.99. Their coconut oil breaks down to .16 an ounce so I am trying to find a new source. I am also going to check out Gordon Food Service for their CO.

 

[dibbles]

I don't know if this has already been discussed, but is their a list on which suppliers provide the best prices for base oils?

This has been discussed, and a search will probably turn up some info for you. That said, as a hobby soaper, I don't deal with bulk 50 lb. quantities, although Soaper's Choice has good prices on 7-8 pounds if you can use that much of something. I also buy olive oil and avocado oil from Costco and I buy HO sunflower oil from Trader Joe's. Lard from WalMart since that is the only place I've found locally that sells it in a 4 lb. bucket. Some people get coconut oil at a decent price at Big Lots or Amazon. The rest I shop around for depending on what I need. If I am ordering FO from a vendor and am also getting low on an oil, butter or additive, usually adding that to the cart ends up to be the best price. When a vendor has a sale, I will stock up a bit more. WSP has sales frequently, and when they have a site wide sale the prices are good. I know people complain about the $5.95 handling fee, but I consider that to be a good flat rate shipping cost. I've bought coconut oil and cocoa butter there at 30-50% off, so the price per pound ends up being reasonable. Too high without a sale though.

 

[amd]

"luxury" oils (e.g. castor, sweet almond, emu, baobab, babassu, etc., etc.)

I wouldn't consider castor or sweet almond to be luxury oils, either.

It depends on the soap and who I'm making it for. My regular recipe (that I sell) has shea and cocoa butter in it. I do market myself as a "luxury" soap maker, but I also do due diligence to get good pricing and quality product so that my customers don't have to pay an arm and a leg for my soaps. In fact, the other local soapmakers use very basic recipes (usually the OO/Palm/CO trilogy) and my prices are lower than theirs (and I set my prices at 4-1/2 to 5x cost).

I consider Avocado oil to be a luxury oil that only gets used in the salt bars I make for hubby because he's cute and I like him. Jojoba oil I will put in a personal batch if it is getting close to the expiration date, and then give to family as gifts. Argan, walnut, camelina and Tamanu oils go on my face as a moisturizer oil (my current go to mix is 50% RBO, 25% Argan, 10% Walnut, 10% Camelina, 5% Tamanu + 2% frankincense EO). That's pretty much all I buy for luxury oils.

At the end of the day, I don't judge anyone for making soap with luxury oils - if it's for you and it makes you happy, then do it! - but I won't pay for them.