Alternative natural extract for skin lightening

Discussion in 'Beginners Soap Making Forum' started by Nelo Monteverde, Oct 10, 2019.

Help Support Soapmaking Forum by donating:

  1. Oct 10, 2019 #1

    Nelo Monteverde

    Nelo Monteverde

    Nelo Monteverde

    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Philippines
    Hi. what other natural extracts that I can use for a whitening/skin lightening soap other than papaya, calamansi and orange? is lemon as effective as orange? is there a known natural buffer to counter the excess citric acid that the orange and lemon produces? many thanks.
     
  2. Oct 10, 2019 #2

    shunt2011

    shunt2011

    shunt2011

    Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    13,378
    Likes Received:
    7,693
    Location:
    Michigan
  3. Oct 10, 2019 #3

    Nelo Monteverde

    Nelo Monteverde

    Nelo Monteverde

    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Philippines
    There are scientific proof that natural extract from different fruits can help lighten skin, remove dark spots and reduce pigmentation when added to soap. Im simply asking for suggestions. Ive been making and selling homemade soap for a little over 5 years but i dont consider myself a pro since most of my experience is based on industrial procedures in making cosmetics. Im a chemist by profession and have been working in the industry since 2004. 5 years ago i tried making homemade soap using natural ingredients as a business for when i retire. This is the first time that i will make a whitening soap based on natural extracts since in big factories we use lab prepared raw materials and industrial grade chemicals to make soaps and i dont want to use those on my products. Im simply asking for opinions from people with more experience in using natural ingredients.
     
  4. Oct 10, 2019 #4

    Dawni

    Dawni

    Dawni

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2018
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    3,650
    Location:
    Philippines
    Here's a good read on citric acid and citrus juices.
    https://classicbells.com/soap/citricAcid.asp
     
  5. Oct 10, 2019 #5

    DeeAnna

    DeeAnna

    DeeAnna

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    11,504
    Likes Received:
    15,348
    Location:
    Northeast Iowa, USA
    "...is there a known natural buffer to counter the excess citric acid..."

    No. You need to add more alkali (NaOH) to compensate for the additional acid.

    "...There are scientific proof that natural extract from different fruits can help lighten skin, remove dark spots and reduce pigmentation when added to soap...."

    It would be nice if you shared some of that information with us. You're asking for help, but not offering much background to start the discussion. I gather the scientific proofs you have discovered aren't all that helpful? Have you tried to formulate a recipe for soap that lightens skin? If so, what ingredients have you tried that do or don't work?

    If you offered more info, that might make this thread more fruitful.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
    Dahila and shunt2011 like this.
  6. Oct 10, 2019 #6

    Nelo Monteverde

    Nelo Monteverde

    Nelo Monteverde

    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Philippines
    First of all thank you for the reply. Ive been experimenting with kamias (bilimbi), orange and calamansi. Kamias is seasonal here and mostly grow on summertime (its rainy season now here in the philippines) so its difficult to get the fruit in the quantity that i need. Orange is very expensive here. Calamansi is cheap but too acidic for my taste. All this fruits are rich in vitamin C and has been proven to aid in lightening (not really whiten) the skin and help reduce dark spots. In the company that i work for, we use licorice root extract, bearberry extract and mostly lab-prepared raw materials for our whitening products which i dont want to use since licorice and bearberey needs to be imported overseas (these are not locally grown here) and i really dont want to use chemicals as much as possible unless neccessary. Thats why im looking for alternatives for me to experiment with to see which is more effective. By the way i havnt tested them yet since they are still curing and wont be available for 2-3 weeks more.
     
  7. Oct 10, 2019 #7

    shunt2011

    shunt2011

    shunt2011

    Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    13,378
    Likes Received:
    7,693
    Location:
    Michigan
    @Nelo Monteverde - Would still like to see the scientific proof that lighteners will work in soap as DeeAnna asked too. I've never seen anyone show scientific proof , it comes up periodically. Call me interested.
     
    Dahila likes this.
  8. Oct 10, 2019 #8
  9. Oct 10, 2019 #9

    DeeAnna

    DeeAnna

    DeeAnna

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    11,504
    Likes Received:
    15,348
    Location:
    Northeast Iowa, USA
    Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) will be converted to sodium ascorbate in lye-based soap. The ascorbate is going to be mostly dissociated (pKa of around 4.4) in the high alkalinity of soap (pH 9-11).

    One reputable science-based article I found states ascorbic acid can be absorbed by the skin but only when the pH is low (around 4) so the vitamin C is in acid form. It may offer some benefits for healing wound, reducing the appearance of sun damage and wrinkles, etc. But it's ascorbic acid, not ascorbate, that is effective, and results are seen only after weeks of continuous use.

    All but one of the references you provide in your last post did not study the soap-based delivery of the chemicals they evaluated. Of the one study that does look at soap-based delivery, the study did not investigate skin lightening. Another study you cite mentions long-term use of skin lightening chemicals is required to see results. Soap is only on the skin for moments, so how can it realistically do anything to lighten skin?

    I appreciate there are chemicals that can lighten skin, but I also see they produce measurable results only with long-term use. I don't see how adding those chemicals to soap will produce skin lightening results. Even if a person uses the soap every day, soap is washed off -- it's not left on the skin indefinitely. I just don't see how a soap, given how it's used, can do anything to measurably lighten the skin. A leave-on topical lotion is a better bet.
     
  10. Oct 10, 2019 #10

    Nelo Monteverde

    Nelo Monteverde

    Nelo Monteverde

    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Philippines
    Any Whitening or lightening products are not designed to see immediate results. Even whitening lotion takes time before you can notice changes in your skin. Lightening the skin is not the same as moisturizing it or conditioning it that you can see results in just a few wash. Most asians are naturally tan (with the exeption of Japanese, Koreans and a few chinese people) thats why most of the studies are conducted using asian subjects. It may not be effective in your side of the world, but here on our side we see its effects everyday.
     
  11. Oct 10, 2019 #11

    DeeAnna

    DeeAnna

    DeeAnna

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    11,504
    Likes Received:
    15,348
    Location:
    Northeast Iowa, USA
    "...Any Whitening or lightening products are not designed to see immediate results...."

    Hey, I'm agreeing with you! I realize there are chemicals that do lighten skin (and people on my side of the pond do indeed use them.) But like I said earlier, "...Soap is only on the skin for moments, so how can it realistically do anything to lighten skin?..." If it takes a long time for topical creams to work and they're on the skin for many hours per day, how can soap be effective in just a few moments per day?

    I just fail to see what research is out there to support the idea of adding chemicals to soap and getting measurable skin-lightening results just from using the soap. It's the delivery method you want to use that I'm skeptical about, not the chemicals themselves.

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts and ideas. I'm afraid I don't have any good ideas to offer, but I appreciate being given the chance to try.
     
    MGM likes this.
  12. Oct 10, 2019 #12

    shunt2011

    shunt2011

    shunt2011

    Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    13,378
    Likes Received:
    7,693
    Location:
    Michigan
    I too am familiar with lightening but wanted more information on it working in soap as you claimed. Bit as I suspected it’s not doable for the short time Soap is on the skin. Leave on products yes. Thanks again.
     
  13. Oct 10, 2019 #13

    penelopejane

    penelopejane

    penelopejane

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    Messages:
    4,909
    Likes Received:
    3,497
    Location:
    Sth Coast, NSW, Australia
    Wouldn't it be nice if one day everyone appreciated what beautiful skin they have been given at birth and rejoice in our differences?
     
    Nanette, Dahila, LilyJo and 6 others like this.
  14. Oct 11, 2019 #14

    Rsapienza

    Rsapienza

    Rsapienza

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2017
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    142
    Location:
    Florida
    My thoughts exactly. It's actually quite sad.
     
    Dahila and LilyJo like this.
  15. Oct 11, 2019 #15

    Dawni

    Dawni

    Dawni

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2018
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    3,650
    Location:
    Philippines
    Yes. :D
     
    LilyJo likes this.
  16. Oct 11, 2019 #16

    Daisy

    Daisy

    Daisy

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    California
    I agree with you with a caveat. For changing your natural color I would advise against it. However, some people do suffer from blotching and dark patches due to sun damage, medication side effects etc. and would need skin lighteners. I don't know if compounded into wash off products would work!
     
    DeeAnna and Iluminameluna like this.
  17. Nov 6, 2019 #17

    Mica Hamilton

    Mica Hamilton

    Mica Hamilton

    Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    London
    Anyone else throw up in their mouths at reading the title, or am I alone?
     
    LilyJo likes this.
  18. Nov 7, 2019 #18

    shunt2011

    shunt2011

    shunt2011

    Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    13,378
    Likes Received:
    7,693
    Location:
    Michigan
    I'm not quite understanding your comment. Why? skin lighteners are very common for age spots etc....
     
    DeeAnna and Nostalgicgranny like this.
  19. Nov 7, 2019 #19

    Mica Hamilton

    Mica Hamilton

    Mica Hamilton

    Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    London
    But mainly for cosmetic makers who target black people to lighten their skin.
     
  20. Nov 7, 2019 #20

    shunt2011

    shunt2011

    shunt2011

    Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    13,378
    Likes Received:
    7,693
    Location:
    Michigan
    That's where you are wrong. It's huge with Asian women (the OP ) as well as other ethnicity. I know quite a few women who use bleach for their dark pigments on their skin from sun damage. Don't just assume someone is being offensive. You're the only one who jumped to a conclusion/asumption. It never even crossed my mind to be honest.
     
    DeeAnna, Nanette and Dahila like this.

Share This Page