All the questions I still have about lye safety

[kioku]

Hello! I am still reading things, watching tutorials, and getting materials together so it'll be a bit before I can start but after watching a lye safety video and reading the lye safety sheet on labchem I still have a bunch of questions.

1) While it should not happen if the heat reaction somehow does cause a fire what is the correct way to handle it. The sheet says if a container of lye is on fire to use water to cool it but make sure water doesn't get in the container, but doesn't say how to actually handle the fire. It mentions sand for cleaning spills on one sheet I saw. Is sand the best way to handle a fire if it occurs?

2) It mentions thoroughly washing clothes that comes in contact with the lye. Is this safe to do with water and detergent in a washing machine like normal?

3) In the case of a spill, a fire, it getting all over due to static, or any incident or situation where lye must be disposed are special means of disposal necessary? How is this done? Can it just be thrown away or do you need some other kind of chemical disposal method and how do we figure out how that should be handled?

4) Are nitrile gloves one time use and after they've come in contact with lye, lye water, or our uncured soap mixture is it safe to dispose of them normally?

5) When washing our mixing containers, clothing, utensils etc that came in contact with the lye is the waste water an environmental concern and is there anything else we should do?

 

[cmzaha]

#1 in my opinion is to wear goggles and gloves and RESPECT the lye for what it is Caustic. It is not going to blow up or catch fire. Your gloves are fine to dispose of in the trash and the lye water is fine to pour down the drain. I use Nitrile as one use because I cannot get them on a second time, but you could rinse them off, dry them and reuse them safely if you can get them back on. Lye is used as a drain cleaner once it is diluted. The more you let the lye stress you the more apt for an accident. Calm down it is not going to catch fire with proper handling, maybe if you set a match to it, but that I do not know.

Lye is very hygroscopic and once air gets to it it will absorb any moisture in the air and will become non-reactive on its own, becoming soda ash. If you drop a few beads you will soon see a little puddle of liquid then eventually a few crystals of sodium carbonate or soda ash better know as washing soda. Try putting a few beads of lye on a non-reactive dish and see what happens.

If you get lye on your skin flush it with copious amounts of cool water, DO NOT use VINEGAR, you will be adding more chemicals to a chemical burn. Read the MSDS sheet. I do not wear long sleeves or thick clothing I want to get to cool water as quickly as possible. I also do not wear shoes and socks in case I spill I want my foot underwater and not be removing shoes and socks. I wear protective eye covering and gloves at all times I work with lye.

My closing thoughts are if you are too frightened with working with lye use m&p to make decorative soap, do not make lye soap.

 

[Zing]

Welcome! Kioku, I am going to be direct here. I struggle with anxiety -- it's not disabling but it really affects my life. However, I have absolutely no anxiety about lye. None. Zip. I think of it as bleach. I'm careful with bleach and with lye but I am not afraid of them. Prior to soaping, I did no deep research into lye. I simply followed directions in a beginner's soap recipe to use gloves, goggles, and a face mask, and good ventilation (I use a fan).

Adding lye to liquid creates a really warm mixture but I cannot imagine it causing a fire. I put my plastic container of liquid in the sink, add the lye, and it sits there until it's cooled.

I may get a 1 or 2 teeny tiny lye crystals on my counter. I just wipe up with a sponge and rinse the sponge thoroughly. If lye crystals or lye/liquid mixture would somehow get on my clothing, I personally would wash like normal. When I soap, I do get soap batter (oils plus lye/liquid mixture) splattered about my counter and on my gloves. I just wash my gloved hands thoroughly. I wipe up spills with paper towels or a rag and rinse.

If you need to dispose of lye crystals or an empty lye container or a lye/liquid mixture, pour it down the drain. Lye routinely is used to unclog drain pipes. When my lye crystal container is empty, I thoroughly rinse it out with water and then recycle it with other plastic containers.

I am a hobbyist and only make 2-4 pounds of soap at a time and so it is just a small amount of lye plus liquid.

Soap Queen has real good introductory videos that I recommend. Best wishes and good luck! Jump in, it's fun!

 

[kioku]

Thank you for the advice so far.

 

[cmzaha]

I mix 2-3 gallons of lye solution at a time with no problems, I did forget to mention I always mix in an HDPE bucket in my sink, because I mix such large amounts my bucket sits in an ice batch. I also have a very open well-ventalited house with an open kitchen.

 

[TheGecko]

1) While it should not happen if the heat reaction somehow does cause a fire what is the correct way to handle it. The sheet says if a container of lye is on fire to use water to cool it but make sure water doesn't get in the container, but doesn't say how to actually handle the fire. It mentions sand for cleaning spills on one sheet I saw. Is sand the best way to handle a fire if it occurs?

I am trying to understand under what circumstances an exothermic reaction could possible cause a fire. Are your mixing you lye in an aluminum bucket? Are you mixing your lye in an aluminum bucket next to another bucket filled with rags soaked in a flammable liquid? With that said, every container of Sodium Hydroxide I have ever seen (from 32 oz bottles to 50 lb buckets) come in plastic containers so if the container were to catch file the LAST thing you would want to toss on water on it. BAD BAD BAD idea! BAD BAD BAD BAD IDEA!!! There is a reason why you add lye TO water and not the other way around...think volcano. You want smother the fire...a heavy wool blanket, boxes of baking soda, a fire extinguisher. In fact, everyone should have a small one in their kitchen. And if you have a 'studio'...you should also have one.

2) It mentions thoroughly washing clothes that comes in contact with the lye. Is this safe to do with water and detergent in a washing machine like normal?

Yes.

3) In the case of a spill, a fire, it getting all over due to static, or any incident or situation where lye must be disposed are special means of disposal necessary? How is this done? Can it just be thrown away or do you need some other kind of chemical disposal method and how do we figure out how that should be handled?

Lesson learned...always measure you Lye into a container that has a lid. That way, it you run of out time and have to stop to make supper, your husband doesn't come into the kitchen and knock over your measuring cup all over the place. I simply swept it up and tossed it in the kitchen sink and then ran water. I then grabbed a damp mop, mopped once, then sprayed some vinegar on the floor and mopped again. One thing I didn't do, was to completely clear the floor before sweeping and mopping. Fortunately, the linoleum is really old and is getting replaced, and my soap cart covers the brown spots.

And if I spill a little lye...it sometimes happens...I clean it up with a damp towel and rinse the towel.

4) Are nitrile gloves one time use and after they've come in contact with lye, lye water, or our uncured soap mixture is it safe to dispose of them normally?

Unless I have ripped my gloves or have too much crap all over them, I just wash my hands with them on with soap and water and carefully take them off, let them dry and reuse them. If I'm not going to reuse them, I first pull one off by the wrist so it comes off inside-out, then hold that glove in my other hand and pull that glove again by the wrist so it comes off inside-out and then toss them in the trash. By the time the garbage is picked up, the soap batter has saponified and/or lye residue has been neutralized by time. It then make sure to wash my hands with soap and water.

5) When washing our mixing containers, clothing, utensils etc that came in contact with the lye is the waste water an environmental concern and is there anything else we should do?

Have you every used a drain cleaner? It contains Sodium Hydroxide and is safe for pipes and the environment in the amounts that artisan soap makers use. More of a concern is the yet-to-be saponified fats that you are putting down your drain. I use microfiber towels to wipe down all my equipment and surfaces, I then toss the towels in a the sink with Dawn and water. Dawn helps to break down the oils and butter. I let them dry and then toss them in the washer. Other folks use old dish towels or rags or even paper towels to wipe everything down and then toss in a bucket and/or they just toss their soaping stuff in a bucket or bin and wait a couple of days for when the batter has saponified and turned in to soap.

There is no need to be scared of Lye, just use some common sense. You just want to handle it with the same care and concern that you would handle any cleaning product...bleach, laundry soap, dish soap, cleansers, oven cleaner, etc. I

 

[KiwiMoose]

What @cmzaha said - the more stressed you are about it, the more accidents are likely to happen. The first three or four times I made soap I was stressed for similar reasons as yours (though less extreme). The worst that happened was that a splashed a few drops of soap batter on the floor and one on my shirt. Once mixed with the oils, it is still caustic until curing, but it will not harm you other than burn a little.

Make sure you add the lye to the water and not the other way around. the other way can cause it to overheat quickly.

Make the first few batches SIMPLE - no colours or fancy swirls or anything like that. Come to grips with your animal before trying anything adventurous.

Now when i soap - it is very de-stressing for me: an artistic endeavour that is both calming and enjoyable.

Oh - and use a silicone mat on your countertop to catch any spills or drips. It did make the surface of my formica bench dull where it spilled. We've sold that house now - so it's not my problem, lol!

 

[kioku]

Thanks everyone for all your advice.

It also wasn't that I was super scared, I just wanted all the safety questions cleared up/to make sure I was being responsible. This was helpful though! I've gotten a bunch of things in though still am waiting on my scale, large microwavable pitcher and a few other small things. : )

 

[rdc1978]

It also wasn't that I was super scared, I just wanted all the safety questions cleared up/to make sure I was being responsible. This was helpful though! I've gotten a bunch of things in though still am waiting on my scale, large microwavable pitcher and a few other small things. : )

LOL, its good to be cautious.

I used to only mix lye outside on my balcony/patio. Now I mix it inside right under an open window and with a mask or two on and mostly turned away.

I dont mix in large batches and id say that after the first minute or two of stirring the water/lye i personally dont think there are too many fumes.

I cover my lye/water prep area in an old, large hospital blanket so the grains of lye are easy to clean and don't get away from me.

Its probably controversial, but I use gorilla gloves from home depot. They are mostly for mechanics, but its reusable, heat resistant and they last for a while before the material becomes too stretched out and my hands end up irritated.

I think you will feel 10x better once you actually make your inaugural bar. Post pics!

ETA - a tip for the future... soaping is an expensive hobby. But you can find a lot of stuff at the dollar store or Walmart. Our local dollar tree has bamboo craft sticks and skewers, small squeeze bottles, really great small silicone spatulas and spoons, stainless steel spoons, silicon whisks, and those great plastic measuring cups.

 

[kioku]

Thank you very much. That's also good advice. I'm going to be using the tutorial series Royalty Soap made, so those will be my first bars specifically. I think I should have everything in by the weekend after next at latest probably. : )

 

[Misschief]

2) It mentions thoroughly washing clothes that comes in contact with the lye. Is this safe to do with water and detergent in a washing machine like normal?

Just as a point of interest, my ex-husband's first job was as a housepainter, working for a German master painter. He was taught to wash his painter's pants in a solution of lye water. He would let them soak overnight in the lye solution in a 5 gallon bucket and wash them the following day. They always came out beautifully white and clean.

 

[TheGecko]

I just wanted all the safety questions cleared up/to make sure I was being responsible.

And that's what it comes down to...being responsible. I have three cats...I go into the kitchen, they all follow me thinking there is food involved. Once they realized there is no food...they leave. Same with hubby, except he sometimes comes back. But after the 'big spill', he gets what he needs and then waits for the all clear to come back in. The only issue I have/had is with Pino. For him, the garage is his Narnia that he MUST gain entrance to at all costs (yours, not his). So when I am master batching my lye or are taking freshly filled molds to the garage...I put him in the bedroom.

A lot of the rest is just common sense. To me, soap making is no different than cooking. I don't leave my pot/pan handles sticking out on the stove when I cook. I am careful when moving a pot of boiling water from stove to sink. I don't sniff bleach or stick my head in the over while spraying oven cleaner and if I get either on my skin I wash/rinse it off ASAP. I store my brown sugar in a tightly covered container.

 

[KiwiMoose]

And that's what it comes down to...being responsible. I have three cats...I go into the kitchen, they all follow me thinking there is food involved. Once they realized there is no food...they leave. Same with hubby, except he sometimes comes back. But after the 'big spill', he gets what he needs and then waits for the all clear to come back in. The only issue I have/had is with Pino. For him, the garage is his Narnia that he MUST gain entrance to at all costs (yours, not his). So when I am master batching my lye or are taking freshly filled molds to the garage...I put him in the bedroom.

A lot of the rest is just common sense. To me, soap making is no different than cooking. I don't leave my pot/pan handles sticking out on the stove when I cook. I am careful when moving a pot of boiling water from stove to sink. I don't sniff bleach or stick my head in the over while spraying oven cleaner and if I get either on my skin I wash/rinse it off ASAP. I store my brown sugar in a tightly covered container.

Who is Pino? I'm guessing a gecko?

 

[TheGecko]

Who is Pino? I'm guessing a gecko?

Cat - Flame-Tipped Mix. All Cream except for ears and tail. He's the only one who wants in garage.

ETA: Gecko was a nickname I was given when I lived in Arizona because I had wild geckos in my home. One I found out that they ate scorpions, spiders and roaches, they were welcomed.

 

[kioku]

Cat - Flame-Tipped Mix. All Cream except for ears and tail. He's the only one who wants in garage.

ETA: Gecko was a nickname I was given when I lived in Arizona because I had wild geckos in my home. One I found out that they ate scorpions, spiders and roaches, they were welcomed.

That sounds pretty cool. : )

I got my stuff in! I'll see if I manage to start making anything this weekend or at least prepping my lye water : )

I use master batched lye, which is room temperature. My room is about 80. I melt my hard oils just barely - add my liquid oils and start soaping. I rarely take the temperature of the lye or the oils. For the first 5 years I didn’t even own a thermometer. I am soaping about 8 years now. The 10 degree thing is a myth - there’s a lot of soap making myths around. I am usually able to make multiple colors without any difficulty. I don’t seem to get stearic spots, and I think the key is to make sure the hard oils are clear (but not hot).

I've been curious about this phrase for a while. I had some issues soaping too warm when I started, and then my last batches were too cool (lord, help me). And I had people recommend or mention that they soaped at "room temperature" without issue. Well technically, my batch that was too cool was room temperature. Lye at 80, oils at 82. Oils were technically melted but not clear (and surprise! stearic spots).

I think that people define "room temperature soaping" differently. To most, I imagine they mean the lye is room temp, but then what temp are their oils? If lye is room temp(78-80) and oils are fully melted at 100 -120 (I found that at 100 my oils were starting to look a little cloudy), that's a 20-40 degree difference.

So I'm curious to get a poll of sorts from folks.

What do YOU mean by "room temperature soaping"?
If you soap at "room temperature" what temperature is your lye solution, and what temperature are your oils?

I think iv understood the issue u faced and what ur waiting to know.
I just started Soaping .Made two batches using exact recipe of Jerrika zimmarman( she is a pro soaper and runs a channel on youtube) BUT failed miserably- So Temperature is the issue iv understood and am sure. Then after I started my research on the internet .everywhere I read and is mentioned that the temp should be AROUND 120-130 f ..BUT OF WHAT ? LYE OR THE OIL? I decided to keep my lye at 105f and oils at 115 in my 1st batch which failed ( at 115f my oils were not absolutely Clear ).. the oil mixture got very thick instantly on adding lye.My 2nd batch I tried with lye at 90f as I watched the video of Jerrika where she mentions that she waits till her lye is below 100f which I followed but failed again.. my oils were about 107ish where they were a little cloudy ( I was trying to keep a difference of 10f) as soon as I poured the lye the mixture thickened SO NOW I think that it's the temperature of the oils that is very imp ... It should be at the temperature where all the oils / butters/ fats are ABSOLUTELY CLEAR ( to give you a good flowery consistency to work) and not so much the lye temperature coz I have been reading that people use lye prepared a day in advance and just heat their oil to clear and donot encounter problem as I did ..next step after that should be to keep stirring not pulsing more than a second till emulsification takes place and then after trace of choice..
My recipe which failed and still am determined to use( coz I know it will give very good soap once I tackle it correctly) is -
Oils in% are - olive O pamace-25,Rice bran refined-20,sweet Almond-8, castor oil-5, coconut oil 22 ,Shea butter 20. Superfat -6. Water: lye-2:1.
Will appreciate if there is someone here who can give suggestion please ..

To me, “room temperature” simply means that the soap and/or lye is ambient (the same temperature as the surrounding air).

Honestly, it has been a long time since I’ve checked the temperatures of lye and/or oils right before soaping. When I first started, most soapers’ blogs and videos fussed over their temperatures. And then I started to follow another diaper who repeatedly said “My lye solution and oils are ‘room temperature’” so I started to experiment soaping “room temperature” and I never looked back.

As for stearic spots, when I melt my Shea butter with other hard fats, I make sure it is properly melted and keep it quite warm for a few extra minutes. I then add those melted fats to my liquid oils (that I’ve already weighed into a huge bucket while the solids fats had been melting) and coconut oil. The residual heat melts the coconut oil.

I should mention that I keep my MB of fats on a seedling mat, but it has nothing to do with maintaining a specific temperature. It keeps the oils just fluid enough so that before I take out what I need, I can easily blend the batch with my SB to make sure it’s properly incorporated. Then I measure out my fats to make soap.

Using this method, I’ve not experienced stearic spots for quite some time.

I am most comfortable and seem to work best with...

I always err on the side of “do what works best for you.” I think humans, in general, would be a much happier lot if we lived our lives in such a way.

It’s sort of like dieting. What diet is best to lose weight? The one you are most likely to stick with long-term.

Here's the micas I have for the tutorials I'm following. The first one will use the orange and gold. The pink one on the bottom was a bonus they sent with my purchase so now I'll have to use that later:

I made my lye water and am waiting around for it to cool down. I already got everything out and ready to be able to do the second part once it's cool enough. The oils this will use will be coconut, castor, and olive.

It's close to cool enough so I prepped my oil and the colorant that will be going in the soap.

 

[rdc1978]

I got my stuff in! I'll see if I manage to start making anything this weekend or at least prepping my lye water : )

Fun! Post pics either way if you feel like it! Good luck and I hope its fun!

 

[KiwiMoose]

Hope you have the fire extinguisher on hand

 

[kioku]

Waiting for it to set up so I can texture the top but here's soap in the mold

Now it set so I textured the top and added gold mica. I've also been spritzing with 99% rubbing alcohal to prevent soda ash and to make the gold mica look better. That's teh last thing I can do today of course, so will clean everything up in a moment and I'll update once I can cut them and such. : )

 

[Zing]

Look at you go!! I'm so excited for you! Tell us how you felt and dealt with mixing up the lye water. Great looking soap tops there. This is the hard part now, waiting to cut. Then more waiting to cure.

 

[cmzaha]

Since this is a thread about safety, I will add one more thing after looking at your work table. But first, Congratulations on your first batch of soap.

The safety caution is the table covering going to the floor, it is very easy to catch your foot in the tablecloth and pull it off the table, so it is much better to let the overhang go over the back of the table where you are not working. Maybe the picture is not showing the working side of your table but I just wanted to point it out. Also never stand your SB up in one of those measuring pitcher bowls you are using, they tip over easily. Personally, I hate those measuring pour bowls because most of them are flimsy with skinny bottoms. Sorry, a lot of soapers use them. If the one you are using is hard plastic it will not be as flimsy as the one many use, I just cannot tell what type it is. HDPE buckets that many paint stores carry in various sizes work wonderfully are stable and can go in the microwave for melting your oils.