Advice for Accelerating FO

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BrewerGeorge

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So I purchased a Lilac FO from Brambleberry knowing full well that it would accelerate trace - probably pretty dramatically. I use Cherry Blossom all the time which accelerates a bit, but I've never used anything with a reputation for making rock soap before and I could use some advice.

Assuming that I want to try a CP, what can I do to be as successful as possible and avoid soap on a stick or ricing? Beyond that, is there any chance of even the most basic ITP swirl?

My typical body bar recipe is 49% Great Value tallow/palm, 20% CO, 20% OO, 5% each of castor and avocado and 1% stearic acid. I usually use a 30% lye ratio.

I assume I should leave out the 1% stearic this time and go back to 50% shortening, yes?

I have also been planning to test replacing half the tallow/palm with lard before I bought the Lilac on a whim. Would that be a good move, or should I postpone that for the next batch? Since lard has more oleic, it should make for a bit easier working time, right?

The big ones, I know, are lye ratio and soaping temperature. What would you recommend?

Finally, any process items that would make it better? Add the FO to the oils before the lye? Add the FO after the barest hint of full emulsification?
 

Seawolfe

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I had the same questions when I was trying my Geranium Rose EO for the first time, and got some good suggestions : http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=52281

The recipe was slower to trace than yours I think: 65% lard, 20% OO, 15% CO, 5% Castor 5% SF, room temp, yes sodium lactate and sugar, full water (soap calcs default). So yes Id sub lard for tallow or palm, in my tiny mind.

And yeah I got soap on a stick anyway, and was *just* able to color and blop it in the mold.

So all I got is to do everything you can for a slow tracing recipe (now I use my castiles for that), and have a plan B for in case it does accelerate anyway.

A couple things I might do different next time: ditch the castor (it DOES accelerate trace), add the EO after splitting and putting colors in. Not sure if either would help on a rough batch tho.
 

dixiedragon

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My #1 tip here - switch from tallow/palm to lard. I'm a lard soaper and honestly, I've never had trouble with a floral. (Knock on wood.) Drop the stearic. Soap with full water - I've gone as high as 40% water as percent of oils on Soapcalc.
 

BrewerGeorge

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My #1 tip here - switch from tallow/palm to lard. I'm a lard soaper and honestly, I've never had trouble with a floral. (Knock on wood.) Drop the stearic. Soap with full water - I've gone as high as 40% water as percent of oils on Soapcalc.
So you're saying to replace ALL the 50% with lard? My first two or three soaps were lard-based, but I switched to the tallow/palm after that and haven't looked back. ;) I'm certainly open to it.

People say "full water" a lot, but I'm not really clear on what that term means. Is it 35%? 38%?
 

kchaystack

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What most people call 'full water' is the default 38% water to oil ration in soapcalc. But as Deeanna and others have pointed out, that is not the best way to calculate water amount. Full water would be about a 28% lye concentration I think. I am sure once of the chemists will correct me if I am misremembering.
 

hmlove1218

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If it's known for soap on a stick, I would ditch the idea of an ITP and do one single color.. Use full water, do the lard swap, drop the stearic, add your FO and color to the oils, use a whisk to incorporate your lye, not a stick blender and soap as cool as you possibly can
 

IrishLass

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A different kind of suggestion...... How strong/long-lasting is the lilac FO? If it's very strong and long-lasting, you might be able to get away with doing everything as you normally do, if you lower the amount of FO down to .5 oz ppo or .3 oz ppo. For example, I work with 2 notoriously accelerating FOs that also happen to be very strong and long-lasting, and they actually soap fine for me when used at a lesser amount....and the scent still shines trough and lasts a long time in my finished soap.


IrishLass :)
 

fuzz-juzz

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With florals, I usually soap cool, more water than usual (about 30-35% at least) colour in first, mix a bit, and add FO.
Don't stick blend after adding FO (I never do anyway) and pour as soon as FO has mixed through.
If I know the FO and know it can handle few swirls, I will separate batter before adding FO and maybe omit adding it to smaller amounts of colour but add FO to main portion of soap.
Otherwise, I would just do one solid colour or maybe two and do few layers or plops.
I don't change my recipe to work around FOs.
I'm more scared to what florals might to after the pour. I've made some NG Asian pear and Lilly FO testers the other day. They looked fine at first but now it looks like they developed pimples haha. They had some weird partial gel happening.
 

paillo

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Can't comment on the FOs, but someone mentioned rose geranium EO. I use it in a Himalayan salt bar I make that's really nice for mature and sensitive skin. Have learned to use it in a very small ratio as it accelerates like crazy. No time to even think about swirling or anything but pouring and hoping not to have to glop into some of the cavity molds. Worth it, I think it really does add something, but...
 

KristaY

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I'd suggest a gradient pour. Decide on how many colors/shades you want then divide your batter and divide your FO. Mix color in, then FO and quickly pour that portion. Move on to the next. By the time you get the 2nd mixed up, the 1st should be firm enough to support it. Same with the following colors. That's what I do with really naughtly FO's and it works well.
 

Seawolfe

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I'd suggest a gradient pour. Decide on how many colors/shades you want then divide your batter and divide your FO. Mix color in, then FO and quickly pour that portion. Move on to the next. By the time you get the 2nd mixed up, the 1st should be firm enough to support it. Same with the following colors. That's what I do with really naughtly FO's and it works well.
Thats a really clever idea, gets you a nice firm underlayer. Thanks!
 

cmzaha

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I'd suggest a gradient pour. Decide on how many colors/shades you want then divide your batter and divide your FO. Mix color in, then FO and quickly pour that portion. Move on to the next. By the time you get the 2nd mixed up, the 1st should be firm enough to support it. Same with the following colors. That's what I do with really naughtly FO's and it works well.
I tend to do the same with very naughty fo's. It does work quite well
 

DeeAnna

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I'd say the idea of using "full water" aka "38% water as % of oils" would translate to a lye concentration of 28%.

Krista -- NEAT idea for dealing with difficult FOs!!! Thank you for sharing that, and I'm going to store that away for future reference.
 

amd

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I'd suggest a gradient pour. Decide on how many colors/shades you want then divide your batter and divide your FO. Mix color in, then FO and quickly pour that portion. Move on to the next. By the time you get the 2nd mixed up, the 1st should be firm enough to support it. Same with the following colors. That's what I do with really naughtly FO's and it works well.
Genius! I'll be trying that with the wild orchid for that I adore but can't get pretty because it moves too dang fast.
 

JuneP

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I'm now doing a 28lye concentration and it shows the water as 35.5% of oil weight in my recipe.

I'd say the idea of using "full water" aka "38% water as % of oils" would translate to a lye concentration of 28%.

Krista -- NEAT idea for dealing with difficult FOs!!! Thank you for sharing that, and I'm going to store that away for future reference.
 

kchaystack

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I'm now doing a 28lye concentration and it shows the water as 35.5% of oil weight in my recipe.
Yeah that is because water as % of oil is not a constant. Deeanna wrote a post explaining it. Depending on the oils you use, your concentration varies wildly.

For some recipes this isn't too big of an issue, but for others it can be too much water and lead to soft soap, problems unmolding, and seperation.

I'll look for the post and add a link next time I am at a pc. I'm on mobile right now.
 

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