Adding non dairy whipping cream to cp soap

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Indira

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I have lot of tropolite whipping cream left in the fridge and wanted to use that in soap... anyone has an idea if I can use a soy based whipping cream to make a luxurious lather? I saw few soapers using whipping cream/35%milk fat but the soy based has sugar and other preservatives and less fat around 20%...

Also I got some palmolien oil here in India , soapcalc has it in the list of oils. Any idea if I can use it to make a good bar of soap.
 

shunt2011

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Hello and welcome to the forum! You may want to take a minute or two and go to the introduction forum and tell us a little about you!

I've used all kinds of milks, but I don't use any soy products so can't help with that. The best way to find out is make a small batch and see how it works for you. The sugars in it would help with lather/bubbles for sure.
 

Indira

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I was thinking to make a full soap only with tropolite cream to understand how it behaves so what shud b my lye? How shud I calculate it the details show 19 grams total fat per serving but it isn't milk fat so what shud I check

And I am planning to make one with the palmolien to see if at all it hardens... I read on net some had success some didn't with it
 

cherrycoke216

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How shud I calculate it the details show 19 grams total fat per serving but it isn't milk fat so what shud I check



And I am planning to make one with the palmolien to see if at all it hardens... I read on net some had success some didn't with it

I think maybe try enter soybean oil 19 g in soap calc? If you use " per serving" grams of it.

Palm olein DOES NOT harden the soap . It's palm oil taking out the palm stearin. Palm olein is always liquid in room temperature and used as frying oil. So if you want a hard bar, use no more than 30% Palm olein. Just think of it as a soft / liquid oil and use other hard oil ( hard in room temperature , coconut, Palm, palm kernel , tallow, lard ) to harden the soap bar.
 
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Indira

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We don't get palm oil here in India even that's n ot solid at room temp. Even coconut oil isn't solid here at room temp... no tard and tallow coz we don't get that here in stores... so got palmolien for now... have to try with it... will add sodium lactate if necessary...
 

shunt2011

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I think maybe try enter soybean oil 19 g in soap calc? If you use " per serving" grams of it.

Palm olein DOES NOT harden the soap . It's palm oil taking out the palm stearin. Palm olein is always liquid in room temperature and used as frying oil. So if you want a hard bar, use no more than 30% Palm olein. Just think of it as a soft / liquid oil and use other hard oil ( hard in room temperature , coconut, Palm, palm kernel , tallow, lard ) to harden the soap bar.
I personally don't adjust my lye when using milks. However, if you SF pretty high already then I would just drop my SF 1-2%

I've not used palm olein nor do I know if it would work in soap.
 

cherrycoke216

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We don't get palm oil here in India even that's n ot solid at room temp. Even coconut oil isn't solid here at room temp... no tard and tallow coz we don't get that here in stores... so got palmolien for now... have to try with it... will add sodium lactate if necessary...

Ah, my bad! Forgot the heat wave weather of India! Though I have never been there. Would like to go there someday!

Ok then, hard oil is what I mentioned and some butters like Shea , cocoa, mango. ( butters are more expensive than other hard oils generally, guess those butter is more of a Africa plant, not a local plant of India? ) solid in room temperature maybe from a Caucasian perspective ? Haha kidding! I live in Taiwan ( north east asia ) but most hard oils are solid here except summer.

I have used Palm olein, as I said before, do not use it too much. Or it will melt away down the drain very very soon. To harden the bar, try yogurt ( cheaper than sodium lactate, just search standard yogurt usage in per pound of soap in forum Search bar ), a little bit of salt ( search usage rate or solesiefe / brine / salt water soap ).
Or try some stearic acid or beeswax( search usage rate ).


But the main recipe / formula is the key. You can render lard if you like. If I remember correctly , India Indian do eat pork, right? You don't eat beef. Correct?
 

Indira

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Beef n pork eaten by some people... majority wont... but anyway i am a vegetarian and cant really tender them at home...cant stand the smell ... coconut oil is lightly solid in winters... rest all year it liquid... yes butters r costly have ordered 100 grams each... have to add them they r the oly solids we can for now... thanks for the help.... adding a 1/2 tsp of table salt for pound of oils? Right....
And yeah please come visit India ... multi cultural and colorful... most importantly so many cusines... u will definitely love it...
 

The Efficacious Gentleman

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I think that you'd need to think about the oils in less tropical terms - when people talk about hard oils, most of them won't be hard for you in your weather but could still add hardness to your soaps, so just because coconut is liquid for you most of the year with the heat, doesn't mean that a 100% co bar of soap will be soft
 

cherrycoke216

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Beef n pork eaten by some people... majority wont... but anyway i am a vegetarian and cant really tender them at home...cant stand the smell ... coconut oil is lightly solid in winters... rest all year it liquid... yes butters r costly have ordered 100 grams each... have to add them they r the oly solids we can for now... thanks for the help.... adding a 1/2 tsp of table salt for pound of oils? Right....

And yeah please come visit India ... multi cultural and colorful... most importantly so many cusines... u will definitely love it...

If you can only get soft / liquid oil because of religion or cost prohibitive , it will make a somehow softer soap. It won't be hard for a long time.( Castile soap= 100% olive oil is best when cure for 6 months or up to a year)
If I recall correctly , there is a thread called " DeeAnna , I have a question ..." . It's a huge monstrous long long thread about an Andalusian grandmother recipe using EXTRA LYE ( like -40% SUPERFAT in soap calc ) to harden 100% Castile soap quicker than 6 months or a year.
The extra lye will react with air and form ash ( some chemical called carbonic acid ) ( see thread post #222 For exact expression as English is not my mother language and I failed at chemistry. Haha! ) people have report that a hot and humid weather will be a slower evaporation rate for water. And water evaporation rate matters because the recipe is sort of counts on the special water usage rate.

Just read the thread, if you got the time.

Also, dual lye ( using both NaOH and KOH ) will cut the slime / gooey- snotty in the high- liquid oil recipe as some have said. When using dual lye, try summer meadow bee calculator or soapee.com . If you are good at math, use search bar for dual lye calculation, in the thread people have through explanation of how to calculate it on your own.

ETA:Shea / cocoa / mango butter usage rate is recommend at 5-10% due to cost. Some may even try like 3% and still feel the difference because their skin are more normal or oily. Some may also try high percentage just because they are rich... Nah, because their skin is more delicate. But high percentage of these butter inhibits lather and need a Longer cure for its best lather & skin feel.( not that waxy & draggy on skin )
 
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cherrycoke216

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Duh! Now I remember a thing called Ghee!
www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=25835

Or search ghee soap on forum.

Just watch out the butyric acid in ghee might stink up the house. Maybe will dissipate after cure.

And I read it somewhere that vegetable Ghee is actually Palm oil?!
Maybe you should check the store nearby for exact ingredient.

Or do u have shortening? Is it a American thing / imported goods ? Hydrogenated / partially hydrogenated oil will also harden the soap.
 

Indira

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Duh! Now I remember a thing called Ghee!
www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=25835

Or search ghee soap on forum.

Just watch out the butyric acid in ghee might stink up the house. Maybe will dissipate after cure.
Yeah read about the ghee thing on the forum

And I read it somewhere that vegetable Ghee is actually Palm oil?!
Maybe you should check the store nearby for exact ingredient.

Or do u have shortening? Is it a American thing / imported goods ? Hydrogenated / partially hydrogenated oil will also harden the soap.
Yes we have vegetable ghee called vanaspathi that is made from palm oil... but thats lot adultrated these days.. and palmolien is also used to make this ghee... will look for it shudbe available...
 
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cherrycoke216

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Yeah read about the ghee thing on the forum







Yes we have vegetable ghee called vanaspathi that is made from palm oil... but thats lot adultrated these days.. and palmolien is also used to make this ghee... will look for it shudbe available...

So maybe try treat it as shortening in soap calc? Or you could find out the major oil composition and use the first oil it list on soap calc.

If Palm olein is used in ghee, maybe it is partial hydrogenated? Not quite familiar with the ghee making process. But liquid / soft Palm olein as a major component of your recipe will still take into consideration.

And is there any dish without too much spice or ghee? I do love the India food served here ( they hire Indian chefs or owned by Indians ) but I have a weak stomach. My digest system cannot take up spice & greasy food which is my love. So if I go there, I might b...b...b...blow up Taj Mahal with the food. ;) sorry if it's too much information and imagination!!! :D
 
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Indira

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So maybe try treat it as shortening in soap calc? Or you could find out the major oil composition and use the first oil it list on soap calc.

If Palm olein is used in ghee, maybe it is partial hydrogenated? Not quite familiar with the ghee making process. But liquid / soft Palm olein as a major component of your recipe will still take into consideration.

And is there any dish without too much spice or ghee? I do love the India food served here ( they hire Indian chefs or owned by Indians ) but I have a weak stomach. My digest system cannot take up spice & greasy food which is my love. So if I go there, I might b...b...b...blow up Taj Mahal with the food. ;) sorry if it's too much information and imagination!!! :D
Just made a soap with shortening olive oil n coconut oil . Added a tiny bit of salt and little bit the vegan whipping cream at trace.. it gelled and in about 16 hrs I unmoulded and cut it beautiful white it is. Tried the scraps and it was creamy lather like it it was mild n not drying... should I really wait for 4 more weeks ?
Sharing the pics here..

Spice is the essence of Indian food... one can make it less spicy though ...u can ask the chef to lower the spice n ghee... u can have a glass of buttermilk after eating the spicy food... it kind of cools the stomach...

IMG_20161009_084716.jpg


IMG_20161009_084126.jpg


IMG_20161009_083943.jpg
 

cherrycoke216

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Just made a soap with shortening olive oil n coconut oil . Added a tiny bit of salt and little bit the vegan whipping cream at trace.. it gelled and in about 16 hrs I unmoulded and cut it beautiful white it is. Tried the scraps and it was creamy lather like it it was mild n not drying... should I really wait for 4 more weeks ?

Sharing the pics here..



Spice is the essence of Indian food... one can make it less spicy though ...u can ask the chef to lower the spice n ghee... u can have a glass of buttermilk after eating the spicy food... it kind of cools the stomach...

Is your shortening made from olive oil? If so, then your recipe fits the " Bastille soap " we called here. ( bastardized Castile soap )
Gelling makes the bar harder. Though I saw a thread somewhere here yesterday a poster said gelling makes his high-olive soap more slimy/gooey.
High-olive oil recipe has creamy lather( like shaving foam ) and more coconut oil will make bigger bubbles. But careful with coconut oil usage rate because more LAURIC acid will be stripping more oil from your body and it melt away sooner than Palm oil ( more palmitic acid )
Long lasting number= hardness- cleansing ( soap calc or other calc )

And u mention u want to try soy whipping cream as a single oil soap, here's some single oil soap experiment :
Soybean oil soap with DOS ( dreaded orange spot, it means oil become rancid )
www.lovinsoap.com/single-oil-soaps/

This one does not have soybean, but worth a look for other oils' characteristic
curious-soapmaker.com/big-test-100-one-oil-soaps-part-i.html

Soybean oil, but no DOS.
alchemyandashes.blogspot.tw/2014/03/single-oil-soap-experiment-phase-3-one.html?m=1

Congratulations on your (first?) soap! You will be addicted! Next thing you will be doing is probably planing to add different spice ground in soap. But some will be scratchy to the skin ( or be a irritant , so usage per pound of oil is very important . And try search forum first because you can learn from others mistake or success. )

And yes, you should wait 4 weeks at least. It becomes milder, PH will go down gradually. According to Kevin Dunn, saponification happens in the first 24 hours. Gelling encourage a quicker saponification, ungelled soap will saponify slower. And soapers here try to taste test soap using a " Zap test " to see if it's lye heavy.( search forum for a more detailed description )
You can still keep scraps and try it on 1 week mark,2 week mark...etc and write down observation . Then you'll know why it's recommended for at least 4 week cure time.

Also thanks for the tip about buttermilk! Will definitely try it!!! ;)
 

Indira

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Yeah it was my first soap...the shortening I used is the vegetable ghee u were talking about... it's basically made with palm oil. Used 50% shortening, 25% each olive oil and coconut oil.
Next soap thinking abt making the 100% coconut oil with 20% superfat and a castille soap for baby... will make some small batches this time...
 

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