Adding essential oils & cloudiness

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Lyma

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Hi there!
While i was thinking dilution as the most difficult part of LS, at the end i've concluded that dilution is quite simple in compare with adding fragrance to diluted soap.

I make bastile soap (85/15) and i know that i need much water to dilute in order for the paste to stay liquid and not start congealing again.
My problems start when i add different essential oil blends. I think that it sounds reasonable for the EOs to cloud soap, or thicken it etc.
1. But the strange think is when adding the same EO blend (ylang, cinnamon, orange) to the same diluted soap in different period, the one comes all clear by the next day, while the other formed a cloud layer which is there for two weeks now, while at the beginning was all clear. (see pic 1)
Cloudiness appeared when the temperatures at home went low during winter. However why this appeared only to one and not both?
Has the coconut oil contributed to the cloudiness in low temperatures?

2. Another issue is when adding a blend of 100% EO and another with diluted EOs (jasmine, neroli). The first one comes almost all clear, while the second one has a strong cloudy foam layer. Even if i add sugar solution, a layer of foam/milk stays at the surface for ever. (see pic 2)
Is the oils (jojoba) of the diluted EOs that do this, as they stay unsaponified at the surface?
Is there a solution on this, like adding more lye, or i'll have to completely forget the use of diluted precious oils?

I don't care much about transparency or cloudiness in my liquid soap. I just hate on having two layers in the same soap. I need to achieve a symmetrical result no matter it's transparency and without having to add borax, or glycerine, or sugar.

:)


Pic 1.jpg

Pic 2.jpg
 

Baqn

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Hallo Lima,

1. I am little bit confused. How it is one and the same soap in different times. You mean you have divided the batch into small jars and you added the EO to one of the immediately after dilution and to the other after several months? What have you tried to fix it? What were the conditions at first case and at the second?

2. About the EO dilutions - not a good idea to add them to LS. They are oils with about 5% EOs. You can't expect anything but separation since you superfatt the LS with the carrier oil. EOs have very different nature from that of fats nevertheless both are greasy. You can still fix it by adding some KOH 30% solution to that soap and than neutralize it to normal pH.
 

Lyma

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Hallo Lima,

1. I am little bit confused. How it is one and the same soap in different times. You mean you have divided the batch into small jars and you added the EO to one of the immediately after dilution and to the other after several months? What have you tried to fix it? What were the conditions at first case and at the second?

2. About the EO dilutions - not a good idea to add them to LS. They are oils with about 5% EOs. You can't expect anything but separation since you superfatt the LS with the carrier oil. EOs have very different nature from that of fats nevertheless both are greasy. You can still fix it by adding some KOH 30% solution to that soap and than neutralize it to normal pH.
Hi Baqn,
Thank you for the reply.
1. Yes that's exactly. The same diluted liquid soap divided into jars. One jar was scented the same day while another one after one month with the same EO blend. In general it was cold, however as i remember there were not big differences in temperature between the two.
Since then i experimented with many different EO blends, some of them are clear, some other are cloudy, however a common result is to be cloudy at first and then starting getting clear from the bottom. The problem is that they don't get eventually all clear. Half is clear and the rest is cloudy, which is not aesthetically nice. I would prefer to be all cloudy than 50/50.
All EO are 100% pure (at least that's what the label say) and i add them after dilution as the soap is slightly warm.

2. Yes i was sure about this issue with the diluted precious EOs and i decided that there is no point on getting my soap life complicated.

:)
 

Baqn

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Hallo @lsg ,

I am a little bit confused of that LS tutorials. Do you use boric acid or Borax to neutralize your soap? Everywhere they write 20% solution of Boric acid or 33% solution of Borax. How this is possible? The solubility limit of Boric acid at 25 degrees Celsius in water is about 5% (5 g BA in 100ml water) and that of Borax is about 3% (3g borax in 100ml water). Do you have any further information?
Is there any significant difference between neutralizing with Citric acid and Boric acid or Borax. The idea is to neutralize the free alkali and reduce the pH, isn't it?
 

DeeAnna

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It's my guess that the liquid soap tutorials you're reading don't say to dissolve borax or boric acid in room temperature water, they say to use boiling water. The solubility of boric acid or borax changes a lot with temperature.

For example -- "...You can make either a 20 percent solution of boric acid or a 33 percent solution of 20 Mule Team Borax. For the boric acid, take 8 ounces of boiling water and add 2 ounces of boric acid. For the Borax, use 3 ounces Borax in 6 ounces of boiling water. ..." Source: How to Make Homemade Liquid Soap [emphasis is mine]

You can neutralize with citric acid, boric acid, borax, and even fatty acids, such as stearic acid. The point is to neutralize excess alkali, as you thought. If you also try to reduce the pH below the point at which excess alkali is fully neutralized, that means you're overneutralizing. This will cause the soap to partially decompose and create cloudiness and a floating layer of fatty acids.

It's harder to over neutralize with borax and boric acid, which is why these chemicals are often used for neutralization. It is extremely easy to over-neutralize with citric. Stearic acid works fine, but may create a cloudy or opaque liquid soap, so if you want a clear LS, stearic may not be the best choice.

I'm not lsg, but I'll share that I don't make liquid soap that requires neutralization. Instead I use a slight amount of superfat to ensure the soap is not lye heavy. This no-neutralization method can make beautifully clear liquid soap with a lot less fuss.
 

lsg

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Hallo @lsg ,

I am a little bit confused of that LS tutorials. Do you use boric acid or Borax to neutralize your soap? Everywhere they write 20% solution of Boric acid or 33% solution of Borax. How this is possible? The solubility limit of Boric acid at 25 degrees Celsius in water is about 5% (5 g BA in 100ml water) and that of Borax is about 3% (3g borax in 100ml water). Do you have any further information?
Is there any significant difference between neutralizing with Citric acid and Boric acid or Borax. The idea is to neutralize the free alkali and reduce the pH, isn't it?
I use a recipe for liquid soap that doesn't need boric acid or Borax to neutralize. If you have surplus fat in your recipe, then you don't need to neutralize the soap. I make glycerin liquid soap with a 6% lye discount. PM me if you want the recipe.
 
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