Accelerated/curdled again

SoapMakingForum

Help Support SoapMakingForum:

Jamison

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
248
Reaction score
7
This happened back when I tried to make a peppermint soap, then again with a patchouli blend. I asked on here and was told to add the essential oils to the liquid oils before the lye solution was added. I tried that this time and got the same results. A big clumpy mess.

What causes this and how is it avoided?
 

Susie

Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
9,701
Reaction score
9,184
Location
Texas
We're gonna need a few more details...

Exact recipe in weights, please.
What exactly is the peppermint blend, and what is the patchouli blend, and who makes/sells those?
Method of soaping: CP, CPOP, HP?
If it is CP, how hot were your oils? What about your lye mixture?
Any other additives?
 

newbie

Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
6,117
Reaction score
5,376
So many factors can play in.

Can you please give your recipe, soaping temps, whose fragrance you used and how much, colorants... essentially the whole spiel?

Also, do you mean it got thick and difficult to pour or did it rice or separate?
 

Jamison

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
248
Reaction score
7
I've never had this happen with any other essential oil blend. I use 5 different base oils in the soap.

Thick and clumpy in a few seconds. Like cold mashed potatoes.

What are things that typically cause this to happen? Like I said, the only other time this happened was with peppermint. I thought this time would work with adding essential oils before the lye.
 

Relle

Administrator & Bunny Fanatic
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
11,772
Reaction score
4,004
Some EO's can accelerate trace. You said it happened with peppermint.

I haven't had it happen with peppermint, although it does get hot, quite quick when I add the EO. I soap at room temperature, so if you soap cool, it can be avoided. What temps are you soaping at ?
 

Jamison

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
248
Reaction score
7
I have my oils around 100 degrees and lye around 120 when they are mixed.

This isn't unusable soap but it's extremely ugly and not presentable to anyone.
 

houseofwool

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Messages
1,159
Reaction score
710
I strongly suggest soaping cooler than that. I masterbatch my lye so that is at room temp, which now that fall is here means around 65°.

I melt my hard oils, then add my liquid oils to bring the temp back down. I'd say the temp is somewhere around 70-80ish when I add the remaining water and lye solution.

Also, where did you get your essential oils?
 

Jamison

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
248
Reaction score
7
That low of a temp, huh? Most of my soap information came from older books. Things have changed a bit I'm sure.

"round 70-80ish when I add the remaining water and lye solution." What do you mean by remaining?

This is a blend from Essential Wholesale.
 

newbie

Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
6,117
Reaction score
5,376
Some people add part of their liquids as milks, juices, etc.. to the oils and use only part of the water amount to dissolve the lye. HOW is talking about having everything prepared with your oils, even part of the liquids, blended together at room temp before she adds the cooled lye water. Soaping hot can really make batter move to trace quickly.
 

Jamison

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
248
Reaction score
7
Interesting. It's never caused an issue other than those mentioned times.

I'd rather masterbatch the lye. It would save time when making soap (since I wait around for it to cool to 120 now). I looked into changing my method a while back. One method I tried was using the hot lye water to melt the solid oils. Then add the liquid oils after it was all melted.

I will try this lower temp next time.
 

houseofwool

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Messages
1,159
Reaction score
710
Yep! That cool. As long as your solid oils are still melted and mostly clear you are fine. It takes forever for the melted oils to cool down on their own, but by adding the liquid oils, it drops the temp from ~120+ to 80 or so immediately.

As far as the essential oils, I haven't found patchouli to accelerate trace. I have found that florals like lavender or ylang-ylang accelerate trace quite a bit. As do spicy oils like cinnamon and clove.

I remember reading the same type of information when I first started. Then great minds here gave me more information.
 

Jamison

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
248
Reaction score
7
What about tea tree or peppermint?

Sounds like it could be a combo of those particular essential oils and the temperature I'm mixing at.


Thanks for the help.
 

houseofwool

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Messages
1,159
Reaction score
710
Since I sell and make pretty big batches, masterbatching lye has been a huge time saver. I scrounged 2 large laundry detergent bottles, not the kids with a spigot and that is where I store the lye. I make up a gallon+ of distilled water, plus an equal weight of lye at a time in a 5 gallon pail.
I put the lid on it and let it sit overnight to cool. Then I carefully pour it into the laundry detergent bottles. This way my lye is ready to soap when the mood strikes (or inventory gets low).I use both tea tree and patch extensively. I don't think it is the oils. Can you post your recipe, with weights so we can see if there are other issues at play? I think the temperature is the culprit.
 

newbie

Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
6,117
Reaction score
5,376
You mentioned a patchouli blend. Do you know what else is in the blend?
 

cmzaha

Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
11,857
Reaction score
11,337
Location
Southern California
I have never had patchouli accelerate, but I do have a peppermint that accelerates to soap on a stick.
 

Relle

Administrator & Bunny Fanatic
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
11,772
Reaction score
4,004
You shouldn't have an issue with tea tree, just soap cooler.
 

Judiraz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
243
Reaction score
313
Location
Irvine, KY
You say you wait for your lye to cool to 120. Do you use an ice bath? I mix my lye in a plastic cup, never glass, and put it in a bowl with ice and water to cool. This is outdoors in Florida. By the time I mix and get my oils cooled < 100 my lye is usually @ 90 or less.
 

Jamison

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
248
Reaction score
7
You say you wait for your lye to cool to 120. Do you use an ice bath? I mix my lye in a plastic cup, never glass, and put it in a bowl with ice and water to cool. This is outdoors in Florida. By the time I mix and get my oils cooled < 100 my lye is usually @ 90 or less.
Not usually. I've just done other things while it's cooling.

How do you calculate for the ice?
 

houseofwool

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Messages
1,159
Reaction score
710
You set your lye solution container into another bowl filled with ice water so it cools faster
 
Top