I don't quite understand. Are you saying that if I totally replace the amount of water called for with GM that it makes a softer bar?
I believe what I had read before, was that GM made a "spongier" bar. Is that the same as a "softer" bar?
A moisturizing GM soap that is hard?
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I don't quite understand. Are you saying that if I totally replace the amount of water called for with GM that it makes a softer bar?
I believe what I had read before, was that GM made a "spongier" bar. Is that the same as a "softer" bar?
Obsidian
Well-Known Member
No, totally replacing you water with milk won't make it softer. Adding extra milk to the normal amount of water would make a soft bar. My GM soap isn't spongy either, its identical to water only soap.
Milk can make your soap overheat, if it overheats too much then the soap could get a bit spongy.
Narnia, do you have a base recipe you like? If so, just use it and replace the water with milk.
Milk can make your soap overheat, if it overheats too much then the soap could get a bit spongy.
Narnia, do you have a base recipe you like? If so, just use it and replace the water with milk.
ngian
Well-Known Member
No I am saying exactly the opposite.
If your recipe calls for 150gr NaOH and 300gr water and if you don't replace water with milk but instead you add another for eg. 200gr milk, and thus having total of 500gr of liquids then you are going to have a softer bar in comparison with a 300gr liquid recipe.
penelopejane
Well-Known Member
No that's not what Ngian and 5 other experienced people have said on this thread. GM does not effect the hardness of the soap, excess water or the oils you use will effect the hardness of your soap.
But it's not really hardness tha is important (because olive oil 100% makes a very hard bar after cure but this isn't reflected in "hardness".
What is important is longlife. Deeanna's explanation (on this thread) is excellent:
>I said I'd get back to this issue. SoapCalc numbers do not directly measure longevity. Many people confuse the Hardness number as being a measure of how long lived the soap is, but that is not strictly correct. If you are working in SoapCalc, the fastest way to estimate the Long-lasting number is this:
SoapCalc Long-lasting number = Hardness number - Cleansing number
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Then would making GM soap HP make it get spongy, since it gets heated? Am I safer making GM soap CP? Would that give me a better chance for a non-spongy bar?
No, she's saying that if you add additional liquid above what is given in Soap calc you will have much softer soap due to the extra. If you replace or split the recommended amount you will be fine. I dissolve my lye in water and add the remaining amount in milk. HTH.
traderbren
Well-Known Member
Have you made a batch without the GM to see if it's your recipe versus the GM? And are you letting them cure properly before determining if they are too soft or spongy? It's been stated several times in this thread that the GM will not affect hardness. In one of your other threads I recall someone saying that they would not HP a GM soap since you run the risk of scorching the milk, and it will smell bad. If it was me, I would first make the recipe with just water, and then I would make a batch with the GM. I mostly CP, and see no real benefit to HP unless it's a special recipe that requires it, like liquid soap or shaving soap.
Obsidian
Well-Known Member
I've never tried to HP a milk soap and I don't plan too, with my luck I would burn the milk. When I do my milk soaps, I use just enough water to dissolve the lye then use milk for the remainder of the liquid. I mix the milk directly into the oils before adding the cooled lye water, I try to keep the temp low.
I was preventing gel but my last GM I let gel on the counter and it turned out good. No overheating, no brown burned milk and no spongy.
I was preventing gel but my last GM I let gel on the counter and it turned out good. No overheating, no brown burned milk and no spongy.
No...I don't have a good base recipe yet. I am still searching for one, that would give a hard but moisturizing/conditioning bar.
I read on one website that 60% hard oils + 40% soft oils gave a nice hard bar? Is this about right?
Also, will going above a certain % SF cause the soap to be soft as well?
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It depends on what you mean by hard. A bar can be used as a hammer but be used up in no time at all in the bath (100% coconut, for example). So do you want physical hardness, longevity or a mixture of the two?
Then I would look at 50% lard/palm/tallow, 15% CO, 15% Olive and 5% castor. SF at 5%. If you aren't up for using any of those 3 oils at 50%, you can use a lot of shea or cocoa butter. But those are expensive, reduce lather and, in the case of cocoa, can make the bar brittle.
With soaping, we can't always have our cake and eat it. Sometimes we can, and those times are lovely. But sometimes being able to have x means that we have to sacrifice y. y might be some bubbles, some money or some principles. But then what is more important - y or x?
You want moisturising, so CO needs to be low. Then you want a physically hard bar that lasts a while, so you need a hard oil at a large amount, that doesn't cleanse. You COULD use shea at a lower amount and add in some softer oils, but then that doesn't give you want you are after.
With soaping, we can't always have our cake and eat it. Sometimes we can, and those times are lovely. But sometimes being able to have x means that we have to sacrifice y. y might be some bubbles, some money or some principles. But then what is more important - y or x?
You want moisturising, so CO needs to be low. Then you want a physically hard bar that lasts a while, so you need a hard oil at a large amount, that doesn't cleanse. You COULD use shea at a lower amount and add in some softer oils, but then that doesn't give you want you are after.
Thank you! So, I am understanding that palm/lard/tallow are not cleansing?
I am confused between palm oil and palm kernel oil. Palm kernel is supposed to be cleansing, yes?
There are sooooooooooooooo many factors to consider that it is mind-boggling!
I just found this list of options by a seller. Which type should I buy??
Palm Oil - Refined Bleached Deodorized
Palm Oil, ORGANIC, Unrefined *RED* RSPO Sustainable
Palm Oil, Refined Organic, RSPO Sustainable
Palm Oil, Refined, Bleached, Deodorized, Homogenized, No Stir
Whatever is "RSPO?"
What about Crisco?
I am confused between palm oil and palm kernel oil. Palm kernel is supposed to be cleansing, yes?
There are sooooooooooooooo many factors to consider that it is mind-boggling!
I just found this list of options by a seller. Which type should I buy??
Palm Oil - Refined Bleached Deodorized
Palm Oil, ORGANIC, Unrefined *RED* RSPO Sustainable
Palm Oil, Refined Organic, RSPO Sustainable
Palm Oil, Refined, Bleached, Deodorized, Homogenized, No Stir
Whatever is "RSPO?"
What about Crisco?
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That's right - Coconut, Palm Kernel and Babassau (spelling) are cleansing.
Palm, lard and tallow are not.
One thing that helps to some degree is the following -
On soapcalc, choose an oil that you would like to use, but can't for what ever reason. Set it as 100% of the recipe and calculate the recipe. Go back to the oil selection and then select a new oil - you now have the two oils compared side-by-side. It doesn't take in to account the "unseen" elements, such as the butters actually reducing lather, or too much cocoa making a brittle bar, but they can help you to find oils which are similar to one another.
Palm, lard and tallow are not.
One thing that helps to some degree is the following -
On soapcalc, choose an oil that you would like to use, but can't for what ever reason. Set it as 100% of the recipe and calculate the recipe. Go back to the oil selection and then select a new oil - you now have the two oils compared side-by-side. It doesn't take in to account the "unseen" elements, such as the butters actually reducing lather, or too much cocoa making a brittle bar, but they can help you to find oils which are similar to one another.
Thank you! That was very helpful! I was able to see the properties of each oil on its own!
What a fabulous idea!! I have printed out each of the oils that I might use and have been studying their properties! What a HUGE eye-opener!!!
What would happen if I upped the sf in the above recommended proportions...like to 8%?
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