"neat" soap

Is there a % of "neat" soap content that you should strive for? I understand not superfatting too high.

I used the Summer Bee Meadow calculator earlier today-and it had a "neat" soap %. (I understand what "neat" soap is. Just have never seen an actual amount calculated.)

also-this is a really great calculator if you need one!

I really don't understand exactly what it means, but this article by Dr Dunn :::swoon::: explains Neat Soap.

http://cavemanchemistry.com/HsmgTemperature2009.pdf

So ungelled soaps become softer when exposed to water. This would seem to be a bad thing, since we want our soap to last as long as possible, right? Is there a benefit to the different reaction to water (gelled vs. un) in relation to the skin?

Deda said:

I really don't understand exactly what it means, but this article by Dr Dunn :::swoon::: explains Neat Soap.

http://cavemanchemistry.com/HsmgTemperature2009.pdf

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That was interesting...I am glad that both gelled and non-gelled soaps are equaly good (almosT)

Would the oils change absorption of the water?

That article is pretty impressive. I understood the gel/no gel part, but I still don't quite understand what neat soap is. Is it liquid soap? Why would you want to make "neat" soap? Can someone explain it in terms a chemistry dummy (me) can understand? Thank God for soap calcs.

Neat soap is soap and water. The molecular structure is like solid soap, but you have a liquid.
Gelled vs Ungelled is neither good nor bad. They both make soap.
The temperature of the water that soap is dissolved in seems to make more of a difference in dissolving soap than if the soap were gelled or ungelled.
It doesn't matter if you gell or don't gell. You will still make soap.
So, according to the article, gelling is a personal preferance and it gives conditions that affect gelling.

So if I grate up a bar of soap and add water to it until it dissolves, do I have neat soap or did I change the molecular structure. :?

"Neat" is often used to describe something as "straight" or not dilluted.

For example, "neat whiskey" would describe ordering a glass with only whiskey in it (no ice, etc...).

donniej said:

"Neat" is often used to describe something as "straight" or not dilluted.

For example, "neat whiskey" would describe ordering a glass with only whiskey in it (no ice, etc...).

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see thats the idea I got as well, so the reasoning I would get behind this would be uncut soap without other ingredients to take down the concentration of soap per surface area (say one cubic cm just for giggles)

so lets say we have one cubic cm of soap made in each method:

Hot Process"

Adding heat with a burner means more water can be "cooked" out of the soap batter via evaporation and thus leave more soap per cubic cm and less h20 per cubic cm, increasing the concentration of soap in cubic cm (and the whole of the raw soap batter)

Cold Process:

Relying on the heat generated by the exothermic reaction of saponification, some water may evaporate but not all of it (which is why these soaps are cured for extended periods... to my knowledge longer than HP???? I have less experience with HP than CP)

so at the time the soap is raw, there is more h20 in that cubic cm along with soap molecules than in thoroughly cooked HP

gelling vs nongelling I think is a matter of opinion, it cools the max temp of the sap reaction down so alot of the larger molecules (and unsaponifiables) are not denatured , leaving even more h20 in the soap because not as much is evaporated off and thus leaving an even higher concentration of water in that cubic cm.


Now in all of these methods you would still have glycerol which is a biproduct of the saponification reaction, to get truly "neat" soap I assume youd need to remove this as well...

Then I guess you could call the soap neat....


now why youd want to do that is beyond me, maybe put like a 1% superfat and use the end product to clean hardcore nasty kitchen grease up with rubber gloves on....



hows that sound?? lol just my theory

My first thought when I saw the words 'neat soap' would be soap without fragrance, so you can really smell what the soap smells like by itself. I couldn't get that link to open.

donniej said:

"Neat" is often used to describe something as "straight" or not dilluted.

For example, "neat whiskey" would describe ordering a glass with only whiskey in it (no ice, etc...).

Click to expand...

The molecule in neat soap is straight (like a line).
The term comes from the shape.

If you have soap and water, you still have soap, but the water makes it easier to wash away dirt.

Hey, I hope I'm not sounding bossy. I switch to teaching mode sometimes. (retired science teacher)

babytinkie said:

The molecule in neat soap is straight (like a line).
The term comes from the shape.

Click to expand...

What if it's a saponified poly-unsaturated fatty acid?

hahaha-funny!

In simple terms-"neat" is like "pure" soap right? I just wondered why you waould want to calculate the amount of neat soap in a bar-does it help you determine the superfatting?

LOVE the article-super helpful! (also interesting.)
Thanks!!

Hey, I've been reading about neat soap. It is made during the "kettle or boiling" manufacturing process. After the glycerin is taken out of a batch of soap, a caustic solution is added to saponify the excess fats. The batch then separates into two layers: The top layer, neat soap, and the bottom layer, separated by a thin layer called the nigre. The neat soap is turned into detergent, bars, etc. The nigre contains most of the water, soap and the impurities. The bottom layer contain excess lye. I don't know why the soap calc would have neat soap unless they thought somebody was wanting to make a detergent. (The neat soap is a liquid crystal, which gives it the shape of the molecules.)

That makes sense. Thank you.

It's all very interesting? I guess I'm one of the cheerleaders not the nerds

Now my head hurts! Too much thinking!!!!

I think I'll go make some milk bath . Not to much thinking to that!