Borax Does NOT Nuetralize Lye

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donniej

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I've read on this forum several times that adding borax to soap will nuetralize some of the lye. I did some experiments testing nuetralizing lye and borax does not make it easier. Borax is alkili itself and if anything could shift PH further alkili from nuetral, though not by much.

Borax, though weak, is still alkili enough to change phenolpthalein. No amout added to lye will cause phenolpthalein to "turn off".

So it is my conclusion that adding it to your soaps will not require you to add more lye. Furthermore, it's sodium content will also add hardness to your soap.
 
donniej said:
I've read on this forum several times that adding borax to soap will nuetralize some of the lye. I did some experiments testing nuetralizing lye and borax does not make it easier. Borax is alkili itself and if anything could shift PH further alkili from nuetral, though not by much.

Borax, though weak, is still alkili enough to change phenolpthalein. No amout added to lye will cause phenolpthalein to "turn off".

So it is my conclusion that adding it to your soaps will not require you to add more lye. Furthermore, it's sodium content will also add hardness to your soap.

ohhhh how i looooove another science buff :) MORE POWA!
 
Interesting - it's promoted as a neutralizing agent in lye heavy liquid soap. I never thought about it as I formulate my liquid soaps so that I don't need to neutralize (I use the Summer Bee Meadow lye calculator) but I have been considering using the borax as a thickener.

But in thinking it through I believe (oh look - here's a reference http://www.borax.com/detergents/pheffect_2.html ) that it's a BUFFER not really a neutralizing agent.

(to those who don't know what a buffering agent is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffering_agent )

It's not very soluble, by the way, so if you DO want to add it be sure to dissolve very carefully in ample hot water.
 
Carebear, I'm glad you posted that link. I was just going to do that.

Here's an interesting bit:

Hard waters do not form a lather with soap, because soap forms granular compounds with the calcium salts of the water. Previously boiling the water with sodium carbonate will precipitate the calcium salts, and the water thus purified will foam with the soap. Or, sodium or potassium carbonate incorporated with the soap, is said to produce the same effect.

Reference: http://www.henriettesherbal.com/eclecti ... /sapo.html

Both the borax.com site and the henriettesherbal.com site have much useful info.

Isn't soap fascinating? :)
 
carebear said:
Interesting - it's promoted as a neutralizing agent in lye heavy liquid soap. I never thought about it as I formulate my liquid soaps so that I don't need to neutralize (I use the Summer Bee Meadow lye calculator) but I have been considering using the borax as a thickener.

But in thinking it through I believe (oh look - here's a reference http://www.borax.com/detergents/pheffect_2.html ) that it's a BUFFER not really a neutralizing agent.

(to those who don't know what a buffering agent is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffering_agent )

It's not very soluble, by the way, so if you DO want to add it be sure to dissolve very carefully in ample hot water.

I'm interested in how you do that for liquid soap (I just now am looking at the Summer Bee Meadow calculator) do you put in anything for a superfat? My liquid soap is always clear at the end (I've used it without incident, having forgotten the borax) and then I do the borax and it's cloudy. :( I know that it means that I'm probably adding too much, but I'd rather not deal with it.
 
I superfat at 2% for safety sake and I get clear soap. I've got some Turkey Red oil I've been planning to add for a superfat (I still find liquid soap drying) but haven't played with that yet.

I like HAVING liquid soap but find making it a challenge.
 
This is what I always read in catherine failor's book so I never tried it in cp. I'll have to try it now in my stain sticks. Thanks!
 
I use sodium borate in my liquid soaps but in very small amounts. I think using it in large amounts will have negitive effects. I have read that using boric acid has been the choice of "old time soapmakers". I was planning on testing with it to see what I think of it. I will try to get some today. As for making your soaps clear.... a whole lot of testing is what works the best. At one point I bought 100 2oz. clear cups and mixed different additives into a soap base and labeled them and left them set for 2 weeks to see what was clear and what would cloud. Then when you think you have got it down try putting some at a tempature of 55 to 60 degree and see if it is still clear. They work fine being cloudy but are a tuff sell at a craft show or if you ship a bottle to a colder climate the first impression is not good when they open the box and see cloudy soap. I have so much more to learn and am having a great time getting there.

Bruce
 

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