To gel or not to gel

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Soaps_and_more

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There are some benefits of gelling, but I usually dislike it and try to keep my soaps from doing it.
Some are stubborn and then I usually end up with soaps that are kind of rubbery. Very strange consistency.

I find it doesn't really go away. Like with aging, when the soap gets older it would get harder again. It stays like this.

Does anyone else know this?
 
My gelled and/or partial gelled soaps never have a rubbery feeling. I like gelling my soaps because the colors are much more vibrant when I do, and when a stable color 'morphs' into a weird color when adding to the pot, I find that gelling a soap will get it back to the color it is supposed to be faster.
 
I don't use palm at all. I don't use animal fats (because the people I give my soap to are a bit touchy on that subject).

I do use a lot of coconut. Because I love bubbly. Mostly something like 50%.
Could it be the coconut in that high percentage?
 
My very first batch gelled, and had that kind of rubbery feeling along with a very strong playdough smell. Seems to have gone away, mostly anyhow, now that the soap has cured for a couple of months (though I still catch hints of playdough if I sniff my bar I'm using for testing while it's wet). I don't think I've gotten another batch to gel since then, and with some of them I was trying for gel. Just wind up with spots of weird brownish discoloration along the bottom of the loaf, like it got too warm, and tons of ash on top. But if it's getting warm enough to be 'too warm' why isn't it gelling? I've more or less given up on it at this point, my oven apparently either does too warm or not warm enough, with no happy middle ground.
 
Can you post your recipe? I've read that soaps with a higher castor content (over 10%) can be rubbery but I've never made it that high. I don't think I've gone higher than 30% coconut, except for a salt bar that was 95% coconut.
 
My very first batch gelled, and had that kind of rubbery feeling along with a very strong playdough smell. Seems to have gone away, mostly anyhow, now that the soap has cured for a couple of months (though I still catch hints of playdough if I sniff my bar I'm using for testing while it's wet). I don't think I've gotten another batch to gel since then, and with some of them I was trying for gel. Just wind up with spots of weird brownish discoloration along the bottom of the loaf, like it got too warm, and tons of ash on top. But if it's getting warm enough to be 'too warm' why isn't it gelling? I've more or less given up on it at this point, my oven apparently either does too warm or not warm enough, with no happy middle ground.

That's very weird? Could it possibly be an altitude thing (read under your pic that you live at a high altitude.)
 
My very first batch gelled, and had that kind of rubbery feeling along with a very strong playdough smell. Seems to have gone away, mostly anyhow, now that the soap has cured for a couple of months (though I still catch hints of playdough if I sniff my bar I'm using for testing while it's wet). I don't think I've gotten another batch to gel since then, and with some of them I was trying for gel. Just wind up with spots of weird brownish discoloration along the bottom of the loaf, like it got too warm, and tons of ash on top. But if it's getting warm enough to be 'too warm' why isn't it gelling? I've more or less given up on it at this point, my oven apparently either does too warm or not warm enough, with no happy middle ground.

You cooked your soap. Do you have a laser thermometer or a kitchen thermometer? The oven should be about 110*F (40*C) when you put the wrapped soap in. Then you turn the oven off and leave it 12-24 hrs.

If you haven't got a thermometer preheat the oven and turn it off. Wait till it is the temperature of a warm day. Use your hand to test the temp. Then put your wrapped soap in and don't open the oven.

Gelled soap has better colour and a much better feel to it.
 
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That's very weird? Could it possibly be an altitude thing (read under your pic that you live at a high altitude.)

Not Kittesh, but I doubt that, as I am in Denver, and soap many times up in mountains during the summer when camping, with a mean altitudes of 10,000+ feet, and never have a problem gelling my soap and I still never get that rubbery feeling.
 
You cooked your soap. Do you have a laser thermometer or s kitchen thermometer? The oven should be about 110*F (40*C) when you put the wrapped soap in. Then you turn the oven off and leave it 18-24 hrs.

I have an IR thermometer, use it to keep an idea of my soap temps. My oven's lowest setting is 200*F. I can warm it to that, with cast iron pans and my pizza stone in it, and it'll stay above room temp for maybe two hours. Without the thermal mass, it takes less than half an hour for my oven to come back to ambient. Having the light on makes no detectable difference in the temp. (Cheap, absolutely no frills electric oven, with minimal insulation. Came with the house.)

It has occurred to me that, at least during the summer, I could probably just set my fresh soap outside to gel. Our daytime temps are running in the high 90s, in direct sun it's easy to get 10 or 20 degrees warmer. Put a big plastic bag around the whole mold/tray/towels arrangement to keep dirt and bugs out... Gonna have to give that a try. Have it outside by sunrise, and bring it back in around sunset.

That's very weird? Could it possibly be an altitude thing (read under your pic that you live at a high altitude.)

Yep, live at about 2200 feet above sea level, just high enough that I have to make various adjustments in baking and candy making and some cooking. I've thought the altitude might be affecting soap making somewhat, but don't have a way to establish a baseline to track any differences. We also have ultra low humidity- normally it's in the 4-5% range. Makes for really quick water loss in curing soap, though it doesn't seem to speed up actual curing any.

And regarding the rubbery feeling- the first batch of soap I did use stearic acid in, at 7%. Got uncolored globs of stearic through the soap, where it did its instant saponify thing in clumps through the soap. That plus maybe overheating is what I figured happened with that soap. Makes big, poofy clouds of very fluffy bubbles that seem pretty stable if you even show it water, though.
 
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Recently I tried to make the rimmed soap, and gel the outer layer. I must have done something wrong because it cracked, and was a failure :(
 
I have an IR thermometer, use it to keep an idea of my soap temps. My oven's lowest setting is 200*F. I can warm it to that, with cast iron pans and my pizza stone in it, and it'll stay above room temp for maybe two hours. Without the thermal mass, it takes less than half an hour for my oven to come back to ambient. Having the light on makes no detectable difference in the temp. (Cheap, absolutely no frills electric oven, with minimal insulation. Came with the house.)

It has occurred to me that, at least during the summer, I could probably just set my fresh soap outside to gel. Our daytime temps are running in the high 90s, in direct sun it's easy to get 10 or 20 degrees warmer. Put a big plastic bag around the whole mold/tray/towels arrangement to keep dirt and bugs out... Gonna have to give that a try. Have it outside by sunrise, and bring it back in around sunset.

No this will not work. Do not put your soap in the sun.

What you are aiming for is a little cocoon around the soap so it does its own thing. Your oven sounds fine. In summer you won't need a pizza stone in winter wait till pizza stone gets to 110*F. No more. You don't want 40* for 4 or 6 hours. You will cook your soap.

Just follow the instructions once. Preheat oven and turn it off. Wait till it comes down to 110* F. Wrap your soap in a towel or small piece of blanket. Walk away and don't open oven for 12 hours minimum. Don't even peak. It will gel all on its own.
 
No this will not work. Do not put your soap in the sun.

What you are aiming for is a little cocoon around the soap so it does its own thing. Your oven sounds fine. In summer you won't need a pizza stone in winter wait till pizza stone gets to 110*F. No more. You don't want 40* for 4 or 6 hours. You will cook your soap.

Just follow the instructions once. Preheat oven and turn it off. Wait till it comes down to 110* F. Wrap your soap in a towel or small piece of blanket. Walk away and don't open oven for 12 hours minimum. Don't even peak. It will gel all on its own.

Not even in the sun for a couple of hours? I've got plenty of spots that get anywhere from 2 hours up to all day sun. Our house is oriented east-west with the front facing north. The house shadow makes a pretty darn good sundial.

I have done that method with using my oven, and no gel. Not even partial. The first soap, the only one I've had gel, I had the oven actually on at its lowest setting for 10 minutes after I put the soap in, and turned it back on for 10 minutes an hour later. I know this is too much heat (now), but have yet to figure out a way to hit that happy medium where my soap will gel without overheating.
 
Recently I tried to make the rimmed soap, and gel the outer layer. I must have done something wrong because it cracked, and was a failure :(

You are not alone -- it's critical to get the right consistency when forming the rim. There's a learning curve, so if this was your first time, you just need a little more practice. In the videos I've watched, sometimes the soap cracks despite the best efforts of the soapers to prevent that. They've just fixed the cracks as best as possible and moved on. If the soap is super brittle and can't be molded or bent at all ... well, that's a "back to the drawing board" kind of situation.
 
How cool are you soaping, and do you insulate? What oils are you using, and do you water discount?

All of these will factor into if a soap is going to gel or not, or if it's more likely to gel or not.
Are you sure it's not gelling? Some soaps can gel very quickly and you miss it. Others can/will double gel (rare but possible), meaning they will go through gel, cool down and then gel again (I have a few that will do this and will sometimes get what looks like partial gel because the second gel was only the partial)
 
How cool are you soaping, and do you insulate? What oils are you using, and do you water discount?

All of these will factor into if a soap is going to gel or not, or if it's more likely to gel or not.
Are you sure it's not gelling? Some soaps can gel very quickly and you miss it. Others can/will double gel (rare but possible), meaning they will go through gel, cool down and then gel again (I have a few that will do this and will sometimes get what looks like partial gel because the second gel was only the partial)

Looking over my batch notes, I see that I've done most of my batches at 40% lye concentration, which may be a big part of why I'm not getting gelling even when I try to. I have done two recent batches at 33% lye concentration, though, and those didn't gel either. I soap generally around 100*F, with variations of about 7 degrees to either side, tending toward cooler when I've got the batter split, but climbing back up once it gets in the mold.

I'm kind of all over the place still with what oils I'm using. Coconut, avocado, olive, RBO, castor, sunflower, canola, PKO, cocoa butter, shea butter... not all at once, mind you.

I'm... pretty sure it's not gelling? I'm not looking for gel as it happens, I'm looking for it after the fact when I cut the soap. Soaps have all been very opaque, no hint at all of translucence around the edges.

Insulation has been a sometimes thing. About half the time I've wrapped a towel around the mold, but it hasn't seemed to make any difference. I've got a butt-load of styrofoam sheet right now, though, so might make some mold insulators from it and see if they make a difference.
 
Not even in the sun for a couple of hours? I've got plenty of spots that get anywhere from 2 hours up to all day sun. Our house is oriented east-west with the front facing north. The house shadow makes a pretty darn good sundial.

I have done that method with using my oven, and no gel. Not even partial. The first soap, the only one I've had gel, I had the oven actually on at its lowest setting for 10 minutes after I put the soap in, and turned it back on for 10 minutes an hour later. I know this is too much heat (now), but have yet to figure out a way to hit that happy medium where my soap will gel without overheating.

Definitely not in the sun. Put the mold in a cardboard box and wrap it in a towel. I use 31% Lye conc. Works every time.

I think your 40% lye conc may be preventing gel. If you are not getting partial gel then I wouldn't worry. The reason I ensure gel everytime is that I will get partial gel if I don't and I hate partial gel with a passion.
 
That translucent look is a deceiving concept in my opinion. Most of my soaps do NOT look translucent to me; perhaps it is my perception of what I think translucent looks like. But I know they are gelled. I have had partial gel with the oval that absolutely gelled and the outer part of the soap did not gel. That partial gel in the center of the soap has never looked what I would call translucent. To my mind, I expected soap to look something like glycerine soap when it gelled. That never happens. Or like when you shine a light from behind an ear lobe and can sort of see through the ear lobe skin. Does not look like that at all.

Try HP soap and see if it looks like what you think translucent is supposed to look like. To me it does not. It never looks like what I would call translucent. I've done plenty of HP soaps and I know absolutely, positively that they gelled because they went through the vaseline-looking stage before I ever put them into the mold. That was the gel phase. But once unmolded and set out to cure and after cure, they never look see-through. And when I add colorants to that, whatever light might be expected to pass through a 'translucent' soap would just be absorbed by the color, so no, they're not 'see-through' either.

The only soaps I've had that sort of resemble what I think might be a bit translucent were soaps made with full water and where the recipe included some rice bran oil or a bit of added beeswax or lanolin or high castor oil, and some coconut oil, too I think. Oils that tend to be a bit on the translucent side to start. But when I soap with high lye concentration, encouraging gel takes much more of an effort than if I soap at a low concentration, especially when I soap on the cool side to start with.
 
I agree with earlene, translucent isn't how I'd describe my gelled soaps. There is a different quality to them than ungelled soaps though, and side by side, the gelled soaps may give the impression of translucency.

I usually soap at 30-31% lye concentration and around 100 degrees. I am not one of the lucky ones that can just wrap a towel around my mold and know the soap will gel. Also, I usually can't tie up my oven for 12 hours. There is a fan that cools the oven off even when that is an option. I wrap my mold in a towel or blanket - or both - and set on a heating pad. It automatically turns off after an hour, and sometimes I will turn it back on at a lower setting for another hour. This works pretty well for me and my soaps almost always gel.
 

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