Pet Soap

Hi y'all! I've just started researching soap making to save some money on washing our animals. Pet soap is three times more expensive than people soap (for some reason) and it takes A LOT of it to wash a horse.

So I got 25lb of beef fat from a butcher friend and I'm looking to make the most pet friendly liquid soap I can with it.

I've already learned how to make basic tallow soap but I'd love to chat with anyone who has experience making it for pets!

Sorry if this topic came up. I'm on my phone and can't figure out the search function.

Plug this into google: www.soapmakingforum.com pet soap

From what little research I have done, the pH of soap is way to high for a pet's skin.

ETA: I am having a hard time finding information about pH and horses...

artemis said:

Plug this into google: www.soapmakingforum.com pet soap

From what little research I have done, the pH of soap is way to high for a pet's skin.

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Thanks, I'll check that out now.

Is there no way of lowering the ph of lye soap?

I've read all the old SMF.com threads on pet soap that popped up on a Google search and the feelings are incredibly mixed. Most say it's fine but the people who say It's bad for pets seem to think It's damaging to them. None of them however use soap made with tallow. A Google search shows me that tallow soap's ph is only 8.1 on average so that doesn't seem to bad.

We used Orvus on our cattle in the 1970s and as I recall, a little would go a long way and required a lot of rinsing. Something like this: https://www.statelinetack.com/item/orvus-paste-shampoo/E013906/ I'm pretty certain we bought it at a feed store. It may be acceptable for dogs & cats.

This article is specifically about not using human shampoo for a dog, but it addresses the issue of pH levels: http://m.petmd.com/dog/grooming/evr_dg_shampoo_for_dogs

Aside from the whole pH issue (that I have never used on any pets, as all my pets swim or crawl in the aquariums), making liquid soap is an entirely different issue than making bar soap. Liquid soap is unable to be superfatted as high as a bar soap. It will also break if you get the pH too low, and will give you fatty acids floating on an alkali solution.

Liquid soap is not difficult to make, but it does have a slightly different skill set.

I would also advise you try whatever you make for the animals on your skin and hair first.

I've used bar soap on my dogs with no adverse reactions. No dry skin, irritation or itching. Of course they aren't getting washed too often but I prefer bar soap over pet shampoo. Not only does it rinse off easier, it completely removes all odor. When I use pet shampoo, they end up smell like musty wet dog but with bar soap, they just smell like soap and their fur is super shiny/soft.

I've never tried liquid soap on them, not sure I'd want too. I've had so many issues getting liquid soap right, its either too thick or too thin and it never lathers well unless I pack it full of coconut then its just a terribly drying soap.

I generally use a soap with 30% neem for the dogs, unscented and uncolored. Were you planning on using just tallow in your soap? It makes a pretty gentle soap, I'd add at least 10% coconut to boost the cleansing power.

I use syndet bar which is very low ph less than 7, the same one I use for myself but without scent, when the dogs coat is dry it wil not stink. What is the best thing about unscented for dogs,; they will not have to cover the scent with some stinky things; like rubbing in the poop or old fish or whatever they find. Soap wil dry the skin, Even if you think that you do not inflict any harm on animals you actually do. Their skin does not come back like ours to the right ph. Prolonged usage of soap on dogs will eventually lead to dandruff and itching and probably irritation. A lot of owners do not check skin of their long haired dogs. I was judging dogs in Europe for years even breeding them here too. I had seen the damage of skin in countless dogs. Making or getting good dog shampoo will cost much less than vet appointment. I can not understand, people say they love dogs, and still risk their health. Dogs skin is different than ours!!

Obsidian said:

I generally use a soap with 30% neem for the dogs, unscented and uncolored. Were you planning on using just tallow in your soap? It makes a pretty gentle soap, I'd add at least 10% coconut to boost the cleansing power.

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I planned on using only what I could obtain locally but I know bulk coconut oil is fairly cheap. I'm unfamiliar with neem oil for anything other then a pesticide though. Does it effect the ph?

Susie said:

Aside from the whole pH issue (that I have never used on any pets, as all my pets swim or crawl in the aquariums), making liquid soap is an entirely different issue than making bar soap. Liquid soap is unable to be superfatted as high as a bar soap. It will also break if you get the pH too low, and will give you fatty acids floating on an alkali solution.

Liquid soap is not difficult to make, but it does have a slightly different skill set.

I would also advise you try whatever you make for the animals on your skin and hair first.

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Thanks for your input. Does this mean I can't make liquid soap with tallow? From what I could tell liquid soap is made from desolving freshly made still hardeing hot process soap into water. I'm probably missing a step though.

Dahila said:

Making or getting good dog shampoo will cost much less than vet appointment. I can not understand, people say they love dogs, and still risk their health. Dogs skin is different than ours!!

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That's seems to be what's eluding consensus. "Making a good dog shampoo".

artemis said:

This article is specifically about not using human shampoo for a dog, but it addresses the issue of pH levels: http://m.petmd.com/dog/grooming/evr_dg_shampoo_for_dogs

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Interesting read. Thanks.

TalkingDog said:

Thanks for your input. Does this mean I can't make liquid soap with tallow? From what I could tell liquid soap is made from desolving freshly made still hardeing hot process soap into water. I'm probably missing a step though.

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Liquid soap is made by using potassium hydroxide instead of sodium hydroxide. No one on this forum has ever reported being able to create a stable liquid soap by using a bar, and many have tried.

Each oil affects the pH differently as they produce different ratios of fatty acid salts. They are all still very alkaline, usually fro 9 - 12.

Any oil used in bar soap can be used in liquid soap. But some of them are going to affect the clarity of the soap once diluted.

kchaystack said:

Liquid soap is made by using potassium hydroxide instead of sodium hydroxide. No one on this forum has ever reported being able to create a stable liquid soap by using a bar, and many have tried.

Each oil affects the pH differently as they produce different ratios of fatty acid salts. They are all still very alkaline, usually fro 9 - 12.

Any oil used in bar soap can be used in liquid soap. But some of them are going to affect the clarity of the soap once diluted.

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^^^What he said! He covered every point I was going to post.

I was researching a dog shampoo recipe and came across the following recipe:
3/4 c. water
1/4 c. lye
2/3 c. olive oil
2/3 c. coconut oil
2/3 c. other liquid oil such as sunflower, safflower

The recipe called for 1/8 c. castor oil after trace, and 1/8 c. lemon juice or white vinegar to lower the pH of the soap.

The following things about the above had me uneasy:
Firstly the fact that the recipe was given in cup measurements rather than weight measurements.
I also seriously questioned the use of lemon juice or vinegar being that in my head I would think it would affect the curing of the soap.

I decided to live dangerously and tried the recipe. It has been 3 days so far and the soap still feels quite soft. Perhaps I added a bit more castor oil than what the recipe called for but if so, it would have been very little over. I get the sense it will never fully harden. I am new to soap making, but my thought is that the acidity added to the soap after trace affects how the soap will cure.
I would really appreciate hearing more experienced soap makers thoughts on this.

Yeah you should never use soap recipes that use volume measures. Never.

Second, this is going to be a pretty harsh soap even if it isn't lye heavy - that is alot of coconut oil.

Third, the lemon juice or vinegar is not going to lower the ph of the soap. It will react with the lye before the oil can so it is going to increase the superfat of your soap. This is probably why it is soft, not the castor you added at trace.

Sidenote - adding oils at trace to CP soap does nothing to ensure that is going to be the oils left over for superfat. with CP saponification as barely begun at trace, and will likely take 24 - 48 hours to finish unless the soap gels.

kchaystack said:

Yeah you should never use soap recipes that use volume measures. Never.

Second, this is going to be a pretty harsh soap even if it isn't lye heavy - that is alot of coconut oil.

Third, the lemon juice or vinegar is not going to lower the ph of the soap. It will react with the lye before the oil can so it is going to increase the superfat of your soap. This is probably why it is soft, not the castor you added at trace.

Sidenote - adding oils at trace to CP soap does nothing to ensure that is going to be the oils left over for superfat. with CP saponification as barely begun at trace, and will likely take 24 - 48 hours to finish unless the soap gels.

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Everything you said makes so much sense - thank you! I learned a lot about the chemical processes involved (as well as how much to trust the author of the recipe).
I checked the soap again this morning and it still has the same softness as it had all along. I wonder if I could rebatch it and add a bit more lye. I will do some research.

Before you consider rebatching I just want to mention that it takes me at least 3-5 days to unmold my soaps and they're still soft for at least a week afterwards. Soft soap is no reason to be concerned. I would say give it at least a month before you decide on rebatching. It's always worth seeing how a soap cures out, even if it's only a learning process. You can rebatch just as well after a cure as you can right now.

Dreamer said:

Everything you said makes so much sense - thank you! I learned a lot about the chemical processes involved (as well as how much to trust the author of the recipe).
I checked the soap again this morning and it still has the same softness as it had all along. I wonder if I could rebatch it and add a bit more lye. I will do some research.

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You could. You didn't happen to weigh your oils as you were measuring the volume? I guess you could google how much the volumes weight and get a ball park, then plug it all into a soap calculator to figure out how much lye you needed. Did you use vinegar or lemon juice as the acid? You could figure out the amount of lye it used and then add a 50% conc solution.

BattleGnome said:

Before you consider rebatching I just want to mention that it takes me at least 3-5 days to unmold my soaps and they're still soft for at least a week afterwards. Soft soap is no reason to be concerned. I would say give it at least a month before you decide on rebatching. It's always worth seeing how a soap cures out, even if it's only a learning process. You can rebatch just as well after a cure as you can right now.

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True, but I would do the math and figure out that the actual SF is. Tho with all the CO you might want it fairly high to try and offset the drying

kchaystack said:

Liquid soap is made by using potassium hydroxide instead of sodium hydroxide.

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ARRRG! I knew that and I just order sodium hydroxide. Oops guess I'll start out with bar soap as I'm sure most do. Thanks for your valuable input.