so many experiments, so little time. . .

I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed and paralyzed by all the different things I want to try in my pursuit of the "perfect" recipe. I know that I'll get the best information if I make only one change at a time, but with the number of things I want to try, that will take AGES.

Maybe you all can give me some advice on which trails my time would be best spent?

I recently made a new "moisturizing" recipe ("MR") that is different from my "standard" recipe ("SR") in several ways. It has 10% more olive oil, 10% less coconut oil, and 6% more shea butter (total 10% shea butter in MR). Half that shea butter is saponified in the recipe, and half of it is the post-cook SF, which is unusual for me, since I normally use liquid oils for post-cook SF.

MR is beautifully moisturizing. Is it because the OO is higher, the CO is lower, the SB is higher, or the SB is the SF? Or all of the above? That's 4 test batches right there!

But the MR's lather is not so good. Similar questions: is that because of the lower CO, or the high SB?

I also want to experiment with tallow. To get the best idea of the difference it makes, should I replace the PO with the tallow in the MR or the SR? Or use it in a new recipe altogether? . . .and my head starts to spin with all the different variables.

I was thinking that for my next batch, I would split it in 3 parts, and use 3 different fats for my post-cook SF. That might give me an idea of how much of a role the type of SF plays in the performance of MR. (Even though it won't tell me how much of a role the total amount of SB plays. To test that I think I'd have to use the same amount of SB, but have all be saponified and use something else for the SF. Oy.)

But if I do that, then the tallow will have to wait, unless. . . If I'm careful with the calculations and the measurements, can I withhold the PO and the tallow until after the batch is split, and then add them in to their respective portions? Their SAP values are so close that I'm not worried about that, but I've never added a large portion of fats AFTER mixing in the lye-water. Is that safe?

I do realize that there's no substitute for first-hand experiments. But since I can usually only soap about twice per week, I'm concerned that the amount of time it would take me to do all of these tests would make it hard for me to compare the results, because some batches would be way ahead of the others in terms of cure time.

I'm open to suggestions. . .

Information overload. Been there, done that. Including too many things on one's plate.

>>MR is beautifully moisturizing. Is it because the OO is higher, the CO is lower, the SB is higher, or the SB is the SF? Or all of the above? That's 4 test batches right there!

Probably a bit of all of the above, which also means you changed three variables at once (not four since the oil percentages shift in tandem). This is a definite no-no when testing as you can't tell which change caused the greatest impact. Does that matter? Possibly not, but if you want to step from MR to Super-MR, it can be hard to see what to change.

I'm currently playing with four recipes simultaneously, but I'm holding the SF levels identical across the test batches. Since I'm testing for cleansing vs. conditioning in the base recipe, that makes sense.

Tallow is enough like palm (with some changes in some numbers) that I'd be tempted to simply call it palm for the purposes of oils. Once you stabilize a recipe you like, try substituting tallow for palm and then evaluate the difference. Note: I'm about to try tallow myself in place of palm as it's somewhat cheaper.

>>I was thinking that for my next batch, I would split it in 3 parts, and use 3 different fats for my post-cook SF.

That'd be a great way to isolate whether the post-cook SF has that much effect. I suspect, with most standard oils, it's not that significant. I also expect that with shea butter, it IS significant.

Is it possible to make smaller batches, about 1 pound? That would limit the amount of any one recipe made and possibly enable you to squeeze a lot more in terms of number of recipes on the shelf.

And don't forget that the season is moving on into spring. The olive oil soap I used all winter is being retired and I'm moving toward more palm/lard and less OO. My skin is no longer quite as dry as it was in February.

I truly sympathize. I'm not totally new to soaping- I started over a year ago- but I only came upon this forum and other resources very recently, and I feel like I was soaping in the dark until now.
I had started from a simple recipe and didn't know that there was more information out there. My bars were decent- better than what I make now that I am trying out new ingredients and techniques!

MorpheusPA said:

Probably a bit of all of the above, which also means you changed three variables at once (not four since the oil percentages shift in tandem). This is a definite no-no when testing as you can't tell which change caused the greatest impact.

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Right. And I actually wasn't trying to experiment when I made that batch; MR isn't my own recipe. I made it for a friend, then was surprised by how much I liked certain aspects of it.

MorpheusPA said:

I'm currently playing with four recipes simultaneously, but I'm holding the SF levels identical across the test batches. Since I'm testing for cleansing vs. conditioning in the base recipe, that makes sense.

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I am doing the same thing. Going to wait until I get a recipe that I think might be "the one" before fiddling with the SF %. Otherwise it could skew my perception of the results.

Sounds like your recommendation is to do these SF tests first, and do the tallow testing later?

Technically I suppose I could make smaller batches, but the reason I can only soap once or twice a week has more to do with time, uninterrupted blocks of it. One pound or ten pounds, each batch takes about the same amount of time to make. What's the benefit of having less of each recipe? Assuming the batch isn't a complete failure, if I have more of it, then I can experiment on it, use it, pass it around, etc.

JBot said:

Sounds like your recommendation is to do these SF tests first, and do the tallow testing later?

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If that's what interests you. If you're looking for conditioning, tallow's fine, but you're likely to get better results playing with the SF oil and levels.

Technically I suppose I could make smaller batches, but the reason I can only soap once or twice a week has more to do with time, uninterrupted blocks of it. One pound or ten pounds, each batch takes about the same amount of time to make. What's the benefit of having less of each recipe? Assuming the batch isn't a complete failure, if I have more of it, then I can experiment on it, use it, pass it around, etc.

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True, but if you get a bad batch, or one you really don't care for, there's a lot less to use up on a smaller batch. I tend to test at 1 pound, then increase that the next time if I liked the soap.

If we wanted fast soap, we'd go to the supermarket and grab a bar off the shelf. We want great soap...and that takes time. But it's so worth it. And all of the experimentation that you're doing in search of the "perfect" bar, makes you a soapmaker. Anyone can get a recipe off line or out of a book, and make soap. Making soap doesn't make them a soapmaker, just someone who made soap. (JMHO) But researching, and experimenting and thinking and dreaming about soap....now THAT makes you a soapmaker! I only do CP, so can't help you with your specifics, though hopefully, in general.
In my early days of soapmaking, I went through scads of different oils, butters, botanicals, etc. I found a few recipes that I liked best and tweaked them over and over til I was happy with them. My experimentation led me to the conclusion that a great bar of soap depends more on the proportions of it's basic ingredients than in any "fancy" additives.
Sometimes we are too close to the subject and have exhausted ourselves with experimentation, and I found that's where blind testing can be very helpful. Get some friends, give them some samples, but don't tell them anything about the ingredients, give them a questionnaire, and see what they have to say. I did this when I was formulating a facial soap, and I had definite expectations based on my knowledge of the ingredients. The testers surprised me by choosing something entirely different...the bar with avocado oil. That has since become my standard facial soap, and my favorite recipe. I'm sure all of your soaps are amazingly better than anything you ever bought from a store, so don't get stressed, slow down and enjoy the ride....and all of your great soaps along the way!

I agree that one variable at a time is best. Make two batches with the same saponified oils and different sf oils (same sf % though!) then make two batches with different saponified oils (change only 1 oils, say tallow instead of palm) but with the same superfat.

Changing the saponified recipe is a quick win - you can easily see if you prefer palm or lard or tallow. Then you take this base and play with the superfat to get your preferred option there and then look at the superfat percentage.

After all that, revisit the saponified oils with the superfat and % that you prefer to see if there is a difference and it all starts again!

This is all very helpful, thank you!

To those of you who have been making soap and experimenting with recipes for a while: do you ever stop? That is, develop a recipe or three that you really love, and stop experimenting?

I imagine that for anybody who wants to sell, there must come a point where you have to settle on a few favorites and start making them in greater quantities, and keep experimenting as a side project instead of your main focus.

JBot said:

This is all very helpful, thank you!

To those of you who have been making soap and experimenting with recipes for a while: do you ever stop? That is, develop a recipe or three that you really love, and stop experimenting?

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I suppose it depends on the soapmaker. Years in, I'm still shifting formulae and trying new things as the whim strikes me. Some seem to settle down, but I doubt you'll see many of that type here.

But I have four tried-and-true recipes where I know the outcome, know I like it, and know people I give it to like it. Which one I'm making depends on the season as I have winter soap, rest-of-the-year soap, and specialty formulae for special purposes.

In my case, I'm probably more reliant on olive oil than most other people seem to be. No face/body recipe uses less than 25% and I normally run that right up to 70% for dry weather soap. With the consequence that the loudest compliments come from people with dry skin who've suffered commercial soaps for decades.

I imagine that for anybody who wants to sell, there must come a point where you have to settle on a few favorites and start making them in greater quantities, and keep experimenting as a side project instead of your main focus.

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I'd think that as well. There's no way you could sell experimental soap as you wouldn't be able to predict the long-term performance without direct experimentation. A slight wiggle on an existing recipe shouldn't be a problem, however, if the need arises.