Pine Tar Soap for XMas 2014

So the recent discussion got me interested. I went to the local farm supply store and got some PT, then on to Wal Mart for lard and CO. Then to Loews for some NaOH.

I made the batch last night using HP.

Formulation:
Water ... 340g
NaOH ... 140g

Lard ... 567g
CO ... 227g
Stearic Acid ... 113g
PT ...227g

Procedure:
Melt lard, then add PT.
Place pyrex cup in an ice bath, add water and then add NaOH in increments until fully dissolved.
Add all of lye water to lard+PT.
Melt CO.
After achieving "mashed potato" consistency, add melted CO.
Use stick blender to mix.
Load soap into PVC pipes.

This afternoon I removed the soap from the PVC pipes. Pic attached. Making this stuff stunk up the house!!

Facial soap for the ladies is HPing right now.

Cheers-
Dave

Additional info, notes, thoughts, etc.

I used "Hawthorne Products" (brand) PT. Made in Indiana, mfrer website is www.hawthorne-products.com . It was $6.99 for a pound.

Lard+PT traces fast!

-Dave

Yup that looks like Pine Tar soap. Nice job

Your soap looks good! I mean, as pine tar soap goes...

Just a word of caution, tho... Please consider using either plastic or stainless steel to mix your lye. Pyrex can and will etch over time, even if you can't see it, and it can explode without warning. Are there soapers that use glass? Sure. And some of them may never have a problem. But some of them have, and the only thing I can think of worse than exploding glass is exploding lye solution. Why take the chance?

JM2C

Tried a lard/pine tar(PT)/OO/CO/castor formula today (no eo's/fo's). Kept the PT aside in an ounce or so of reserved oils, emulsified the remainder with stick blender, hand stirred the PT in. The stuff turned into fudge inside of 10 seconds. The only time I've ever seen anything accelerate faster was with some floral that I can't remember because I've blocked it out due to the trauma. Got most of it poured into the silicon loaf mold and smashed the rest in by hand. It's now sitting under a box.

I used the Auson kiln-burned pine tar. It doesn't smell like burning tires at all; it kind of smells like a vacation weekend in a cabin somewhere cold where there's a well-seasoned wood fire burning in a big stone fireplace. But I smoke a lot of meat, so I guess I'm used to smelling like a forest fire. The color is a lovely sable brown. I think if I can anticipate the fudge-up I can get a smoother pour next time.

Looks good!!

My tip is to soap as cool as possible, stick blend the melted oils WITH the pine tar, then add the lye water but do NOT stick blend from this point on. Stir, stir, stir and be ready to move.

I tend to HP my PT soaps...

Looks good

smells like a vacation weekend in a cabin somewhere cold where there's a well-seasoned wood fire burning in a big stone fireplace

Click to expand...

Ohh now THAT'S where I wanna be

I'll try your technique next batch. I was just standing there like a doof with my mouth gaping, it happened so fast.

I will be hping my pt in the future.

Out if interest, I'm on the train so can't check the numbers easily, but adding that much co after the cook seems like you cooked a lye heavy batch or did you go for a large superfat?

The Efficacious Gentleman said:

I will be hping my pt in the future.

Out if interest, I'm on the train so can't check the numbers easily, but adding that much co after the cook seems like you cooked a lye heavy batch or did you go for a large superfat?

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Craig:
Neither. I guess I wasn't clear enough in my description. Had a bit of a long/challenging weekend.

I don't want any lard in the SF, so as we've discussed somewhere (I forget if it was on this forum or one of the shaving forums), I was using "2 stage saponification" for lack of a better description. The idea is to formulate for a large batch and then split the fats into different containers; in the container with the lard (and in this case PT and stearic) add *all* of the lye water. When the stuff is mashed potato-ish add the CO. Hopefully at the end nearly all of the lard is soap and some of the CO is not.

I forgot to add in my notes that after I added the CO (while the batch was hot/being heated) I had to add about 150g of water on 2 occasions to keep the batch fluid enough to mix. This is also the time I used the stick blender. Much like the other times I've used the stick blender, when I used it the soap became much lighter in color and thicker in consistency. In this case it went from a very dark brown to a much lighter "milk chocolate" color.

This soap was intended to have 5% SF with CO.

I will also admit I've reconsidered my position on zap testing. I took a teeny tiny bit, smeared it around my finger, and lightly put it to my tongue. No zap. Yesterday I cooked up some facial soap and it was interesting to note when the batch went from "zappy" to no zap.

The soap will be sitting for several weeks prior to cutting, wrapping, and giving as gifts.

Cheers-
Dave

Ah okay! Makes sense.

When working with just one type of lye you can also just work out how much co you would need to leave out initially to have a lye-neutral batch, cook that up in one pot and then add the spare co at the end - then you only have the co as superfat but with less hassle than cooking up two parts before combining. With the two types of lye together (such as in many shaving soaps) separating them can be useful of course.

Unless that is what you did (today I'm having a hard day!)

I just re-read my reply to you. Still not totally clear. The 2nd container with the CO was merely to melt it so as to add the CO to the main pot at a later time. Meanwhile the main pot has the lard+PT+stearic+all lye water. In other words the main pot is "lye heavy" until the molten CO is added, at which point saponification (of CO) will continue until all of the lye is consumed. The idea is that (hopefully) the remaining SF is CO.

I understand your idea ... sounds like a variation on a theme.

Cheers-
Dave

Do you carry on cooking it once the CO is added, or let it saponify in the mould?

ETA, just read your post again and got the answer - yes you do!

I feel that this would cook the rest of the soap for longer than is really required and in fact make the whole thing a touch longer. HP is usally done in the way I described, which requires no extra water or things like that. Very straight forward and simple, gets the same end result (or better, as the first cook is the only cook!) for less time and effort. Not saying you have to do it, of course, but I think it makes sense.

The Efficacious Gentleman said:

Do you carry on cooking it once the CO is added, or let it saponify in the mould?

ETA, just read your post again and got the answer - yes you do!

I feel that this would cook the rest of the soap for longer than is really required and in fact make the whole thing a touch longer. HP is usally done in the way I described, which requires no extra water or things like that. Very straight forward and simple, gets the same end result (or better, as the first cook is the only cook!) for less time and effort. Not saying you have to do it, of course, but I think it makes sense.

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Yes, I cook it after the CO is added ... although your statement(s) makes sense to me. I may change my approach ... in this case the reason I added more water was because it was formulated with 30% water and after the initial stages of cooking it thickened quite dramatically ... more water might make it easier and "one pot" may be simpler.

OTOH the approach right now is pretty simple.

Regards-
Dave

And the one that works for us is the best one!

Looking forward to seeing them cut and hearing your thoughts on using them. I love using PT on my hair.

While we're on the subject of water and HP, I've noticed that my soaps do not seem to follow what I've seen on the various youtube HP videos. The main difference is (I think) the vaseline stage. In the online videos the soap seems to "fold on itself" in the crockpot ... my stuff never does that.

All of my soaps have been made with 35% water down to 30%. I presume the behavior I've noticed is due to the low water content?

-Dave

I use at least full water in my HP. With the longer cook of yours, I think more would be needed (which you do at the second stage, anyway).

When I made my coffee soap I put in a great deal more water, but didn't measure it (naughty, Effy!) - the result was a soap that looks CP but is actually HP. It is something I am going to be playing with over the coming months, but I need to do more work on what the cure does to the bar size, though, as well as finding that ideal amount to get the batter really fluid at the lowest amount of water.

The Efficacious Gentleman said:

I use at least full water in my HP. With the longer cook of yours, I think more would be needed (which you do at the second stage, anyway).

When I made my coffee soap I put in a great deal more water, but didn't measure it (naughty, Effy!) - the result was a soap that looks CP but is actually HP. It is something I am going to be playing with over the coming months, but I need to do more work on what the cure does to the bar size, though, as well as finding that ideal amount to get the batter really fluid at the lowest amount of water.

Click to expand...

When you say "full water" do you mean by the % weight of oils? As in that particular field in soapcalc? So a recipe that has 500g of oils you'll use 500g water?

-Dave

I have never made HP soap except with liquid soapmaking. But, I can tell you that your soap may never mimic the stages you see on YouTube. You have to learn what stages your oils and method give you. You will get it, just give yourself time.