Results are in on the Degreasing Soap

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So way back when I asked about degreasing hand soap suggestions:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46588

Regrettably, my test batch has not been as degreasing as I'd hoped.
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Gave some demo bars to mechanics and the like. Professional mechanics say it's rather useless (they were more polite, but that was the gist). Weekend/hobby grease monkeys say it's ok.

Here was the recipe:
Water 243 g
Lye 114 g
Coconut oil (76 degree) 256 g
Lard 256 g
Canola oil 192 g
Olive Oil 96 g
Sweet Orange EO 16 g
Cedarwood EO 5 g
Activated Charcoal 10 g (rate of 15 g per kg of oils)
Pumice 22 grams (rate of just over 1/4 cup per kg of oils)
Superfat at 6%
EOs were mixed with the olive oil first to help retain the orange.

The result was a fairly black-coloured soap. But not effective enough at degreasing. I'm calling it a "light duty" degreasing soap for now, but any ideas on how to make it heavier duty?
 
Possibly replace that Canola with PKO or palm oil, lower the SF, and maybe pumice/sand mixture?

JMO, I'll leave this to the heavy hitters. They seem to have the amazing tricks. BTW it ptobably smells amazing.
 
Thanks, Goji. It smells ok, but the orange dissipates quickly. Wasn't sure how much to use for that reason. Could probably use more, as it's a degreasing agent also.

I have added Vitamin E in a subsequent (untested) batch to see if it helps retain the orange. Would welcome anyone's experience on that also. Does Vitamin E help prevent the orange from fading?

Interesting comment from one of the hobbyists who tried it, that "Fast Orange" seems to have more pumice in it than this recipe. But Fast Orange you wipe off with paper towels, not washing it down the drain, which is why I hesitate on how much to use.

Do you think the saturated fat ratio would make a difference? SF ratios are something I've not yet studied in detail.
 
Just some thoughts; don't know if they'll be helpful at all.

There are certain clays (French green clay is one of them) that people use in facial soaps for those with oily skin.

However, skin oils and petroleum oils are different.

The orange degreasing products offered at stores...are they made of orange eo's or do they have another component of the orange that works as a degreaser?
 
I have never made a de-greaser bar soap, but I have made de-greasing liquid soap, and can possibly help you with a couple of pointers on obvious points.

First, unlike bath soap, you want your de-greasing soap to remove oil from their skin. I would lower that superfat to no more than 1%. And that just because I have a feeling you are going to make a small batch, and small errors are compounded in small batches.

Second, I would probably ditch the olive and canola oils altogether. I think you will want a harder, less conditioning bar than those may help with. I would probably also go CO 55% and Lard 45%. To further pull the oil away from the skin. You might want to add 1 tablespoon sugar PPO for bubbles.

The orange EO does not have to smell like orange for it to lend to the cleansing. But, you can look to add some corn starch with the EO to help the scent stick, or I believe some people add it to clay. Also, adding it with Litsea might help with that.

I know nothing about adding pumice to soap, but I might would just add the same amount to a less conditioning recipe to better judge what changes only the oils being changed brings. This way you will know what to change in the future.
 
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I would bump the coconut to 50-60%, and drop the SF % to 3-4%, and add 1-2% d-limonene, which is a grease cutter. Bulk Apothecary sells it, as does NDA. I like fresh, fine-ground coffee for scrubby.

Or you might try a 90+% coconut soap, either alone with a scrubby or with 50-70% salt and no scrubby. SF at 10-12%, with 1-2% d-limonene.

I've never done it, but I've heard "The Soap Book" by Sandy Maine has a mechanics soap recipe that calls for 1.5% kerosene. Maybe you can borrow it from your library to see the recipe.

ETA: You may be doing this already, but I would make small batches, 10-12 oz of oils, until I found the recipe I liked.
 
Wow, this is good information, thank you all.

Re coconut oil at higher amounts - I've been shy about going over 35% with that, because I gather it's quite harsh. I was hoping the olive oil might help counteract that.

Re SF - This stands for super fat, not saturated fats? I was thinking saturated fats, and was totally confused.
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I get it now LOL.

So is it better to super fat with high amounts of coconut and lard, or add olive oil for that super fat/conditioning purpose?

Good advice on small batches. I get too excited sometimes and go big before I get it right.
 
For what it's worth, you might want to check out my own thread from when I attempted a similar bar. I used kerosene as the degreaser, and it worked amazingly well. Carbon black, grease, tree sap, nothing could stand in the way of my mighty mechanic's soap... But it came at a cost.

Adding that much kerosene did a couple of things to the soap itself. The most obvious thing it affected was the scent. The soap reeked of kerosene for the first several weeks. I was okay with that, however, because it took at least that long for the bars to cure. Apparently, adding kerosene does something to the molecular structure of the soap, and so the bars came out VERY soft and VERY sticky. I mostly just had to forget about them for a month or so and let them harden. Once the curing was complete, the bars were only vaguely kerosene scented, but they worked wonderfully.
 
For what it's worth, you might want to check out my own thread from when I attempted a similar bar. I used kerosene as the degreaser, and it worked amazingly well. Carbon black, grease, tree sap, nothing could stand in the way of my mighty mechanic's soap... But it came at a cost.

Adding that much kerosene did a couple of things to the soap itself. The most obvious thing it affected was the scent. The soap reeked of kerosene for the first several weeks. I was okay with that, however, because it took at least that long for the bars to cure. Apparently, adding kerosene does something to the molecular structure of the soap, and so the bars came out VERY soft and VERY sticky. I mostly just had to forget about them for a month or so and let them harden. Once the curing was complete, the bars were only vaguely kerosene scented, but they worked wonderfully.
I make a stain stick with kerosene that I also use for my hands when I have been working with a bunch of oils. It cuts the oil quite well and is a great stain stick. Adding in cornmeal would add in some scrubby grit. I do not it is great at removing oil spots on clothes. I do recommend testing on dark fabrics in case it fades the dye. This is what I do 70% coconut oil, 30% lard 32% lye solution, -3 superfat in soap calc. At trace I add in 10% (of oil weight) turpentine and 7% valencia orange eo
 
I accidentally made an 80% coconut oil /80% salt salt bar at 5% superfat instead of 20%, and I thought it would be horribly drying, but its not. And it does clean grubby paws very well, with the salt being an easily dissolved exfoliant.
 
That's a pretty interesting thread. Thanks for linking it.

Reminds me of going to the beach and taking turpentine in case of getting tar on us. Galveston was a nasty place after some oil spills - in retrospect we probably should have avoided water with tar in it rather than rubbing ourselves with solvents. Ahem.
 
For what it's worth, you might want to check out my own thread from when I attempted a similar bar. I used kerosene as the degreaser, and it worked amazingly well. Carbon black, grease, tree sap, nothing could stand in the way of my mighty mechanic's soap... But it came at a cost.

Adding that much kerosene did a couple of things to the soap itself. The most obvious thing it affected was the scent. The soap reeked of kerosene for the first several weeks. I was okay with that, however, because it took at least that long for the bars to cure. Apparently, adding kerosene does something to the molecular structure of the soap, and so the bars came out VERY soft and VERY sticky. I mostly just had to forget about them for a month or so and let them harden. Once the curing was complete, the bars were only vaguely kerosene scented, but they worked wonderfully.

Thanks very much. It sounds interesting and I look forward to trying it, but alas, a kerosene soap may have to wait until we move from our current location. Limited space, in an apartment building, and with that comes limited ventilation. Nearly cleared the building when I tried my first neem soap! :oops: :shock: I'm discovering that experimentation is somewhat limited!
 
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