I made a soap a few days ago that used 7% shea, I was 2 oz short (my tub behind it that I thought was shea was mango!) so threw in cocoa as I didn't have time to run to my pc to soap calc it. I assume its fine, as it looks ok, lol... has anyone done this? results were ok?
substition in a pinch!
- Thread starter gaerwen
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Yanno what they say about the word "assume". 
If you want to be sure, take the time to re-calculate the recipe and make sure before you go on. After the soap has been made, it's rather late to ask questions, get reassurance, or make adjustments.
As you get more experience, you may learn which fats have similar saponification values and be able to do an on-the-fly substitution without recalculating the recipe, but until then it is always safest to do the math.
If you want to be sure, take the time to re-calculate the recipe and make sure before you go on. After the soap has been made, it's rather late to ask questions, get reassurance, or make adjustments.As you get more experience, you may learn which fats have similar saponification values and be able to do an on-the-fly substitution without recalculating the recipe, but until then it is always safest to do the math.
100 grams of cocoa butter needs 13.1 grams of NaOH. 100 grams of shea needs 12.1 grams of NaOH. Both based on 5% lye discount.
You were lucky that the oil you put in needs more lye rather than less, so your lye discount increased rather than decreased. But it was just that - luck. I don't trust luck at the best of times, least of all when making soap.
I don't know why you wouldn't have time to check it, to be honest - what was your process that you couldn't fire up a lye calc?
You were lucky that the oil you put in needs more lye rather than less, so your lye discount increased rather than decreased. But it was just that - luck. I don't trust luck at the best of times, least of all when making soap.
I don't know why you wouldn't have time to check it, to be honest - what was your process that you couldn't fire up a lye calc?
dixiedragon
Well-Known Member
Generally, it's a good idea to re-calculate the recipe. However, if I do an "on the fly" substitution, I put in a bit extra of the substitute oil, or a bit extra olive oil. I generally superfat at 5%, and I'd rather go above that than go under.
I agree with the others. I would never make a change without checking a soap calc. Especially when early in the process to be safe. There are some that can be substituted for each other but again that comes with time and experience and sometimes never without a soap calc.
I also recalculate if I am made an error or find I am short on oil. It is so much easier to recalculate than re-batch, which I hate to do.
This is why I weigh out every ingredient before mixing anything. Had to make too many trips to the computer to recalculate in the middle of something. I don't know why I did not treat it like cooking when I started, but mise-en-place rules everywhere!
I was rushed because my child woke from his nap (unexpectedly) as soon as I started the soaping, lye was cooling so had to get it done. The soap is fine however agree with all pp that I should not have done that. Should have lost the lye water and restarted with proper soap calculations.
Great idea to measure all ingreds separate Before getting the lye water going.
Great idea to measure all ingreds separate Before getting the lye water going.
LBussy
Well-Known Member
I may be way off here but it was my understanding a person could mix lye water well in advance. I've mixed it in the morning and soaped in the afternoon.
You would be correct. Many folks masterbatch 50/50 in large amounts and it will last as long as it's covered until use. I too will mix my lye in the morning before work and I already masterbatch my oils so I just pour off what I need and my lye is ready.
Hang on! Im confused. If you mix the lye water in the morning by afternoon itll be room temperature right?.... I was taught that lye water and oils should always be mixed at 90degrees. Have I been doing this unnecessarily? for four years!? LOL
LBussy
Well-Known Member
I've heard:
- Lye needs to be at (90, 100, 110) degrees
- Lye and Oil need to be within 10 degrees of each other
- Lye and oil should be under 100 degrees
The only hard and fast rule I've found is that the oil/fat and lye should be as cool as you can get them without seizing if you are using hard fats. I thought however if warm was good, hell why not just mix them both hot? I melted my oils (I use Stearic), fresh mixed my lye, and poured them together just KNOWING everyone else had silly rules. Well I got a volcano.
I found that my oil mix for my shaving soaps solidifies under 120 degrees so both the oil and the water are mixed over that temp. TOO far over and I get a volcano, too far under and the Stearic seizes.
For CP and oils, I have been doing completely room temp mixing and it's worked just fine. Take this for what it's worth from a newbie.
I've heard:
- Lye needs to be at (90, 100, 110) degrees
- Lye and Oil need to be within 10 degrees of each other
- Lye and oil should be under 100 degrees
The only hard and fast rule I've found is that the oil/fat and lye should be as cool as you can get them without seizing if you are using hard fats. I thought however if warm was good, hell why not just mix them both hot? I melted my oils (I use Stearic), fresh mixed my lye, and poured them together just KNOWING everyone else had silly rules. Well I got a volcano.
I found that my oil mix for my shaving soaps solidifies under 120 degrees so both the oil and the water are mixed over that temp. TOO far over and I get a volcano, too far under and the Stearic seizes.
For CP and oils, I have been doing completely room temp mixing and it's worked just fine. Take this for what it's worth from a newbie.
So, lye water can be room temp, oils down to whatever cool temp they can be with out returning to a solidified state at all?? THIS would make my life far easier!
Within my first 5 attempts at soaping, I too had a too-hot-volcano. LOL
dixiedragon
Well-Known Member
Freaked my mom and sister out with the tongue test
This weekend we made soap for a event my mom is attending. When the logs were unmolded, there was some seepage. Mom immediately begins to fret that the soap is ruined.
Me: I'm sure it's fine.
Mom: But that's a lot of oil!
Me: It's really not. The soap will reabsorb it.
Mom: Maybe we should throw it away and try again!
Me: I'll tongue test it.
So I lick the soap, and it's fine.
Me: No zap. It's fine.
Sister: What the f*** is wrong with you?! Why would you lick soap?
This weekend we made soap for a event my mom is attending. When the logs were unmolded, there was some seepage. Mom immediately begins to fret that the soap is ruined.
Me: I'm sure it's fine.
Mom: But that's a lot of oil!
Me: It's really not. The soap will reabsorb it.
Mom: Maybe we should throw it away and try again!
Me: I'll tongue test it.
So I lick the soap, and it's fine.
Me: No zap. It's fine.
Sister: What the f*** is wrong with you?! Why would you lick soap?
houseofwool
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I always master batch my lye (2 gallons at a time). I have also used lye very very cold that I forgot and left in the freezer to cool, when I have run out of my 50/50 lye
Dorymae
Well-Known Member
This made me laugh and I'm sorry - it wasn't at you it was that I was taught the same thing. When you are learning a recipe things do tend to go smoother if the lye and oils are close to 90 degrees. Is it necessary? NO it isn't.
When I do piping for soap tops the oils and the lye are well under 80 degrees. (I put them in the fridge for hours before hand!) Yes the mixture does become soap and yes it does saponify. No I don't believe it gels at all (I could be wrong there....)
If I am using a fragrance I know will accelerate trace (Clove comes to mind) I would never keep my lye and oil at 90 degrees. I refrigerate those too before combining (although not nearly as long I imagine they get to around 60-70 degrees)
I also have soaped quite a bit hotter then 90 degrees - more like 130 degrees - but only if I'm using a fragrance with a higher flashpoint.
So the short answer to the question is yes you have been doing that unnecessarily for 4 years.
The important thing is that the oil and lye water are close (say within 10 degrees) of one another.
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Welcome to the easy life!
There are so many different soaping 'rules' out there that have been debunked, but since several of the older soap-making books in which they were first published are still out there in circulation, the myths keep getting perpetuated. I think if you do a search under 'myth' or 'myths' here on the forum that you'll find a few lists that have been made of the debunked myths.For what it's worth, I master-batch my lye water and it good for months and months and months, etc...... I don't know yet if there is a point of diminishing returns, but the longest I've stored my lye water (tightly covered) before using it has been about a year, and it still soaped perfectly fine.
IrishLass
Really depends on what you are comfortable with I guess..I soap at 100 or below...I sometimes put my lye water in an ice bath, and have at times discovered my lye mixture has dropped below to somewhere around 80, and my oils at room temp or close to 100..it didn't affect my soap at all...
Still working on my 'soap house' so until then I'll continue making my batches one at time, but afterwards I'll be master-batching everything in advance...soooooo much easier
Still working on my 'soap house' so until then I'll continue making my batches one at time, but afterwards I'll be master-batching everything in advance...soooooo much easier
LBussy
Well-Known Member
See, that's another one that doesn't seem like it's important. Why would they need to be within 10 degrees of each other?
