Why are soapers so scared about DOS?
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dagmar88
Well-Known Member
Cause you can't sell an inferior product?
Everytime I have got DOS (3 or 4 times) the smell was ok, no rancidity.
lpstephy85
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't use or sell it. I've been soaping 4+ years and thank goodness have never had DOS yet...(knocking on wood).
"...Cause you can't sell an inferior product? ..."
I don't agree that soap with DOS is automatically "inferior", whether one sells or not.
DOS is simply the visual evidence of the fatty acids breaking down with exposure to light, moisture, catalysts, and time. Soapmakers have had to deal with DOS/rancidity for as long as soap has been made. Even industrial soapmakers of today and from over a century ago have been concerned with this issue.
Some soapers on the Dish forum did a lather-lovers soap swap some time ago. After at least a year of storage after the swap, some soaps kept by some of the soapers showed DOS. The same soaps stored by other soapers did not show DOS. If the soap was truly "inferior", it should have shown consistent DOS regardless of the situation.
I've followed other soap tests and am seeing some trends. Probably the most consistent is that the "soft" polyunsaturated oils -- those with high % of linoleic and linolenic acids -- tend to get DOS earlier and to a larger degree. But even with these soaps, the onset of DOS can vary markedly.
I am convinced that handling and storage after the soap is made is every bit as important in preventing DOS as using high quality ingredients to make the soap.
"... Is it possible it wasn't DOS then? ..."
Not having seen sososo's soaps, I can't answer this question about those particular soaps, but I can say that not all DOS smells. If the DOS is uniform and widespread throughout the soap, then, yes, it can have a rancid odor. If the DOS is localized spots, then, no, it usually won't.
I don't agree that soap with DOS is automatically "inferior", whether one sells or not.
DOS is simply the visual evidence of the fatty acids breaking down with exposure to light, moisture, catalysts, and time. Soapmakers have had to deal with DOS/rancidity for as long as soap has been made. Even industrial soapmakers of today and from over a century ago have been concerned with this issue.
Some soapers on the Dish forum did a lather-lovers soap swap some time ago. After at least a year of storage after the swap, some soaps kept by some of the soapers showed DOS. The same soaps stored by other soapers did not show DOS. If the soap was truly "inferior", it should have shown consistent DOS regardless of the situation.
I've followed other soap tests and am seeing some trends. Probably the most consistent is that the "soft" polyunsaturated oils -- those with high % of linoleic and linolenic acids -- tend to get DOS earlier and to a larger degree. But even with these soaps, the onset of DOS can vary markedly.
I am convinced that handling and storage after the soap is made is every bit as important in preventing DOS as using high quality ingredients to make the soap.
"... Is it possible it wasn't DOS then? ..."
Not having seen sososo's soaps, I can't answer this question about those particular soaps, but I can say that not all DOS smells. If the DOS is uniform and widespread throughout the soap, then, yes, it can have a rancid odor. If the DOS is localized spots, then, no, it usually won't.
lpstephy85
Well-Known Member
Totally agree that the soaps would need to be seen first to see if it is true DOS or maybe an additive being silly. I guess you are correct that not all soaps with DOS smell as I remembered I set some soaps aside so I wouldn't grab them for my last show because they looked to have some spots but no smell.
Obsidian
Well-Known Member
I've only had DOS on one batch, it was just a few spots and they didn't have any smell. I dug the spots out and used the soap. I would be horrified if I sold soap that got DOS though and I could see loosing customers over it.
I think (and I'm talking for someone else, for which I make no apologies) that the "inferior" comment was more that customers would most likely choose non-DOS soap rather than DOSsy soap, so if you sell them a soap that is likely to develop DOS in normal conditions, then you're selling them something that won't meet their expectations - not because of the quality of the soap per se, rather the fact that it will go to DOS.
If I buy a new car and the paint starts to fade quickly, I would be very annoyed. Of course, if I have used some bad quality wax on the paint or something similar, there is nothing that I can do. If I did everything right but it is a common issue with the paint on this car, it is the fault of the manufacturer.
If I buy a soap and, during normal usage and storage, it develops DOS, I would be very annoyed. If I'm storing it in a way that is going to encourage DOS, it's my own fault.
To sum up, if the product itself is prone to DOS in normal use, is it going to meet the expectations of the customer? Even if you're not selling, is such a soap one that you would be happy to give to people?
If I buy a new car and the paint starts to fade quickly, I would be very annoyed. Of course, if I have used some bad quality wax on the paint or something similar, there is nothing that I can do. If I did everything right but it is a common issue with the paint on this car, it is the fault of the manufacturer.
If I buy a soap and, during normal usage and storage, it develops DOS, I would be very annoyed. If I'm storing it in a way that is going to encourage DOS, it's my own fault.
To sum up, if the product itself is prone to DOS in normal use, is it going to meet the expectations of the customer? Even if you're not selling, is such a soap one that you would be happy to give to people?
"....if the product itself is prone to DOS in normal use, is it going to meet the expectations of the customer?..."
If a bar of soap turns pretty much all orange and starts to smell sour, then I completely agree the consumer is not going to be happy. But if an average consumer saw a small DOS spot or three on an otherwise fine-looking bar of soap, I honestly doubt most people would immediately think, "hey, this bar of soap is going BAD!" At least I know I didn't think that before I made soap.
One of the most surprising observations made by the Dish soapers was that soap bars that had been used in the actual lather tests were showing strong signs of DOS, but unused sister bars stored under the same conditions by the same soaper tended to not show DOS. Their conclusion was that simply getting the soap wet was enough to trigger the development, long-term, of DOS. I have seen this too on soap bars that are occasionally used to wash very dirty hands -- the bars look fine when used regularly, but turn "DOS orange" if not. This suggests that any soap, however well made, may develop DOS given the right (or rather ... wrong) environment.
edit: Having learned this, I'm not going to make a habit of removing soap ash with hot water or steam. :shifty:
If a bar of soap turns pretty much all orange and starts to smell sour, then I completely agree the consumer is not going to be happy. But if an average consumer saw a small DOS spot or three on an otherwise fine-looking bar of soap, I honestly doubt most people would immediately think, "hey, this bar of soap is going BAD!" At least I know I didn't think that before I made soap.
One of the most surprising observations made by the Dish soapers was that soap bars that had been used in the actual lather tests were showing strong signs of DOS, but unused sister bars stored under the same conditions by the same soaper tended to not show DOS. Their conclusion was that simply getting the soap wet was enough to trigger the development, long-term, of DOS. I have seen this too on soap bars that are occasionally used to wash very dirty hands -- the bars look fine when used regularly, but turn "DOS orange" if not. This suggests that any soap, however well made, may develop DOS given the right (or rather ... wrong) environment.
edit: Having learned this, I'm not going to make a habit of removing soap ash with hot water or steam. :shifty:
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coffeetime
Well-Known Member
It won't hurt your skin, it just smells off. I have some soaps that I made with 30% grapeseed oil, and they have developed DOS. Actually they developed it in less than 3 months, stored in my bathroom. They still lather great, and are my husband's favourite. And, actually, when I moved them to a different, drier, location, they stopped developing any more DOS.
