face scrub recipes please?

cherrycoke216 said:

Don't want to rain on your parade...but I notice that you calculate KOH 100% purity.

Um... Did you double check your KOH package? Are you sure it's 100% purity? If not, you'll have some oil floating on top of your liquid soap.

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Nope I sure didn't. I asked about how to calculate KOH earlier but I didn't get or wait for an answer and went ahead with 100% purity which I'm sure my KOH is not. I just checked and the bottle itself says 84%-92% purity. I knew not understanding all that was going to bite me in the butt. That's why I made such a small batch. So I was supposed to calculate at 90% KOH afterall. ****. Plus this recipe was SF at 3% which I thought was odd for a liquid recipe but I just followed the directions. So this means I'm really going to have extra oil, like 13% SF right? I have it on the stove right now and it's almost all dissolved. Probably another hour or so. Is there anything I can do at this late stage to fix it? I can't just add lye solution to it now can I? Thanks so much for catching that for me.

And can you tell me why some liquid soap recipes ask for borax or some acid to neutralize while others do not? Is it because some recipes are calculated to be 10% lye heavy to ensure full oil saponification so the acid is needed to neutralize any lye heaviness that might result from that? But that has nothing to do with the 90% KOH option right? I thought it did before but I'm thinking it doesn't now. It's simply to make up for most people's impure KOH. correct? Also, when making liquid soap, should I keep the "water % of oils" at the default of 38%?

emi said:

Nope I sure didn't. I asked about how to calculate KOH earlier but I didn't get or wait for an answer and went ahead with 100% purity which I'm sure my KOH is not. I just checked and the bottle itself says 84%-92% purity. I knew not understanding all that was going to bite me in the butt. That's why I made such a small batch. So I was supposed to calculate at 90% KOH afterall. ****. Plus this recipe was SF at 3% which I thought was odd for a liquid recipe but I just followed the directions. So this means I'm really going to have extra oil, like 13% SF right? I have it on the stove right now and it's almost all dissolved. Probably another hour or so. Is there anything I can do at this late stage to fix it? I can't just add lye solution to it now can I? Thanks so much for catching that for me.

And can you tell me why some liquid soap recipes ask for borax or some acid to neutralize while others do not? Is it because some recipes are calculated to be 10% lye heavy to ensure full oil saponification so the acid is needed to neutralize any lye heaviness that might result from that? But that has nothing to do with the 90% KOH option right? I thought it did before but I'm thinking it doesn't now. It's simply to make up for most people's impure KOH. correct? Also, when making liquid soap, should I keep the "water % of oils" at the default of 38%?

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I think people skim through long post and did not catch your question. I read at a slower pace coz this is second language to me.
I think neutralize thing comes from Catherine Failor's book. I get into liquid soap making long after her book published. So I'm not really familiar with that. Many here don't do neutralize thing.

I think it's possible to add back the KOH now. But I'm kinda math challenged here. If it's @92%, it's 11% sf. If it's 84%, it's 19% sf. I think. So I'm at lost here. Should emi just wing it, using simple 90% purity here?

Can you post recipe? So others with better math skill can help.

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=58535

Something to read for you. Post #5 explains how to add back KOH.
But you should post recipe first, let more experienced folks here double check you.

www.lovinsoap.com/2010/09/liquid-soap-neutralizing-and-superfating/

My experience in LS is quite limited and no neutralization for me. So I think this link might help.

I don't use soap calc for my liquid soap. I use summerbeemeadow or soapee.com & I use " lye concentration instead of water % of oils. Because every oil weight/ density is different. Lye concentration will give a more consistent results.

I have to also suggest spending more time on the site reading previous posts - a lot of threads do deal with making sure the koh setting is correct among other things. If an answer is not forthcoming it can also be that it is already answered, and recently. Reading through a few pages of the particular section of the forum when trying something new can show a lot of threads with great information.

cherrycoke216 said:

I think people skim through long post and did not catch your question. I read at a slower pace coz this is second language to me.
I think neutralize thing comes from Catherine Failor's book. I get into liquid soap making long after her book published. So I'm not really familiar with that. Many here don't do neutralize thing.

I think it's possible to add back the KOH now. But I'm kinda math challenged here. If it's @92%, it's 11% sf. If it's 84%, it's 19% sf. I think. So I'm at lost here. Should emi just wing it, using simple 90% purity here?

Can you post recipe? So others with better math skill can help.

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=58535

Something to read for you. Post #5 explains how to add back KOH.
But you should post recipe first, let more experienced folks here double check you.

www.lovinsoap.com/2010/09/liquid-soap-neutralizing-and-superfating/

My experience in LS is quite limited and no neutralization for me. So I think this link might help.

I don't use soap calc for my liquid soap. I use summerbeemeadow or soapee.com & I use " lye concentration instead of water % of oils. Because every oil weight/ density is different. Lye concentration will give a more consistent results.

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Thank you so much for this reply. I think I've figured out at least in concept what's going on with my soap now. My original recipe was exactly from IrishLass's recipe. I only used 300g total oils.

olive 65% 195g
coconut 25% 75g
castor 10% 30g
SF 3%
KOH 59.87 (calculated at 100% purity)
water 114g (60g water + 54g glycerin)

This resulted in too much oil that rendered the opaque blob that wouldn't dissolve when trying to dilute. So I calculated the recipe at 90% KOH which said 66.53g which is 6.66g more KOH than what I had used calculating at 100% KOH. So I dissolved 6.66g of water in 7g of water and added it to my soap and it immediately dissolved a good amount of the blobs. I used my SB and blitzed the whole thing into a smooth paste that took on the opaque color because of all the bubbles created. After some cooking, cooling and sitting, it still had an undissolved layer on top. Zap test passed. My bottle of KOH says on it 84%-92% purity which average is 88%. So I'm going to calculate at 88% purity, take the difference and add that. This has been a really great learning experience though. And thank you for telling me about the soapee calculator! That is great for precise KOH %. I also use lye concentration when I make CP soap instead of % of water of oils for the same reason you mentioned.

I added the 6.66g of KOH diluted in 8g water, cooked, blitzed, cool, sit. A thin foam layer formed on top so I just added some water to make up for all the dehydration that likely happened. Heated and mixed with a whisk. Cooled, let it sit and now I finally have the most beautifully clear liquid soap with no separation! It was a process but I really learned a lot. Thank you to everyone for helping me through this!

Looks great! Glad it was saved - and that it was a positive experience in the end. Sometimes that is better

Cool! How do you like your new facial liquid soap? Does the gel like soap goes through pump bottle well?

cherrycoke216 said:

Cool! How do you like your new facial liquid soap? Does the gel like soap goes through pump bottle well?

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I tried making the emulsified sugar scrub by the soap queen lady, but i think my liquid soap was a lot more concentrated. I didn't put it into a pump, but I think it would just barely go through. I split the batch I made into 6 different little jars trying different physical exfoliants. I ended up liking best superfine sugar and, although it requires a lot of it, facial jojoba beads. But my face ends up feeling quite tight and dry so I think I need to take back the liquid soap amount. Like I said I think mine is quite a bit stronger than the brambleberry castile that she uses. I just got some fruit complex AHA that I wanted to add into it, but I want to get the cleanser part right first. Yet another fun learning experience! Except my skin is pretty mad at me right now!

I have followed this thread but I can't remember what's been said and not. But what about something really simple with non-comedogenic oils as the base?
Say, 5% BTMS or polawax, 20% macadamia/hazelnut/ mango butter and water for the rest? Than add whatever exfoliant you want.
If it's to thin in consistency add more polawax/BTMS, too greasy try upping the emulsifier or decrease the oils.

Nao said:

I have followed this thread but I can't remember what's been said and not. But what about something really simple with non-comedogenic oils as the base?
Say, 5% BTMS or polawax, 20% macadamia/hazelnut/ mango butter and water for the rest? Than add whatever exfoliant you want.
If it's to thin in consistency add more polawax/BTMS, too greasy try upping the emulsifier or decrease the oils.

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Well I tried 2 batches of something similar before I went down the liquid soap path. It's on the 4th page of this thread #32 and on. I first tried this:

Avocado oil 15.5% 23.25g
HO Sunflower oil 30% 40g
Cocoa butter 15% 22.5g
Shea butter 15% 22.5g
Cetyl alcohol 8% 12g
Ewax 15% 22.5g
Germaben II 0.5% 0.75g
Lavender EO 1% 1.5g

which was waaay too greasy for me. It was like slathering whipped butter on my face. well not that bad. But it wouldn't wash off without having to use another cleanser to get it all off. so I tried this below. using coconut instead of shea and increasing the soft oils to hard a bit and increasing the ewax.

cocoa butter 14%
coconut oil 14%
RB oil 21.5%
Sunflower oil 21%
Ewax 20%
cetyl alcohol 8%
Germaben II 0.5%
Lavender EO 1%

This was a big improvement, but still not what I was looking for. It washed off much better, but I didn't feel like I cleaned anything. It just felt like I put lotion on my face and washed it off with water, which is exactly what someone said, that this was basically a lotion recipe after you add water. That's why the recipe with liquid soap in it was appealing. But maybe I should use BTMS instead of Ewax? Or maybe polysorbate 80 would help? Does BTMS or Ewax actually clean and dissolve dirt and oil on the face? I just wanted something that felt like I actually cleaned my face and dissloved dirt and oils instead of just moisturizing. Any thoughts?

Oh, right, I sort of remember that now.

I actually went and tried washing a small part of my face with some polysorbate 60, with comes in a paste form (at least mine did) and it feels clean and oil-free afterwords, but I don't know if that is actually something you would want to do or if there is any safety concerns to use pure polysorbate 60 that way. Polysorbate 80 is in liquid form but works pretty much the same as PS60, you can probably switch one for the other without problems. I think most prefer PS80 though.

I'm still thinking a light water based lotion would be worth giving a try since the other test batches you have made have been oil based and a bit on the heavier side. Something like 20 or even 10% sunflower oil, since you already have that on hand, 10% emulsifier and the rest water would be a good starting point. It really does not need to be more advanced than that.

BTMS supposedly feels more on the powdery side rather than oily/greasy so that might be the best opinion, BTMS also acts as an thickener so you don't have to worry about butters and waxes and such to get the consistency you want. But I don't know how BTMS compares to PS60 or what you already have on hand.

Do I make any sense at all? I've been typing and re-typing on this for a while and is starting to get an headache, lol.

I also have to say that it's mostly theoretically, I have made some research and bought things for lotion making but haven't had the chance actually experiment much with it yet.