Possible to make a milky-thin emulsion with ewax?

Hello!

I am not new to lotionmaking, having researched it off and on for a few years now (in hopes of one day being out of my hubby's grad school debt) so I think I have a pretty good understanding of the basics: preservatives are necessary unless used within 24 hours, beeswax is not a primary emulsifier, vitamin e MAY prevent oil from oxidizing but is not a preservative, etc.

What I am lacking in is practical experience, this works, this doesn't, this specific product is mixed with this one at this temperature, this one can only do O/W, this one W/O, etc.

I wanted to get that all out of the way because I've tried to find my answer through searching on the forum but it's hard to find the information among all the pages of people trying to convince the OP that preservatives are necessary and other people hijacking the thread in order to say they aren't, and then the original question not getting answered. (AKA: I know that preservatives are necessary unless used within 24 hours.)

MY original question is:

Using a very low percentage of coconut oil and cocoa butter, and e-wax at 5% of total weight, can I make a watery, milk-like emulsion that wont separate in 24 hours?

It will be frozen in single use-blocks and a fresh block will be unfrozen every day (or twice a day, depending) and used to dampen wash cloths for wiping a baby butt. I could just use plain water, like many do, but I thought it might be nice to add a little softness to the water.

Here's my thought:

Water
Smeedge of oil (will play with percentages until it interacts with washcloth well)
5% e-wax
scant few drops of tea tree essential oil (Maybe. May leave this off)

This post is too long The extremely short of it is: does e-wax require a minimum ratio of oil to water in order to create a semi-stable watery emulsion?

THANKS! Kim

KimHartley24 said:

MY original question is:

Using a very low percentage of coconut oil and cocoa butter, and e-wax at 5% of total weight, can I make a watery, milk-like emulsion that wont separate in 24 hours?

Yes, I'm embarrassed to say it was unintentional. The watery lotion eventually did separate. I don't remember how long before it separated but I know I used it for several weeks.

It will be frozen in single use-blocks and a fresh block will be unfrozen every day (or twice a day, depending) and used to dampen wash cloths for wiping a baby butt. I could just use plain water, like many do, but I thought it might be nice to add a little softness to the water.

Here's my thought:

Water
Smeedge of oil (will play with percentages until it interacts with washcloth well)
5% e-wax
scant few drops of tea tree essential oil (Maybe. May leave this off)

This post is too long The extremely short of it is: does e-wax require a minimum ratio of oil to water in order to create a semi-stable watery emulsion?

THANKS! Kim

Click to expand...

I want to say I am not a lotion expert but I do have some practical knowledge of making lotions.

There is a minimum ratio to water because there has to be enough emulsifier to make the emulsion stable. However, I don't know what the lowest percentage is since I've never tested it. I've seen a recommended usage amount as low as 2% but I've never used it that low. The watery lotion didn't even have a very low ewax percentage. It turned out to be 4.8% with water just under 67% and oils were 27% of it. I think it turned out watery because I used more water than I originally intended (there was a teeny amount of water left and I thought it wouldn't make much of a difference if I poured it in - boy, was I wrong :roll: ) and I didn't use any butters or stearic acid.

Also, I don't know how well the lotion would freeze. Just my opinion, I'd leave tea tree oil out. I've seen it posted many times over that essential oils should not be used on babies.

A great blog for ALL things lotion and body products is swiftcraftymonkey. Search this name and there is months possibly years worth of info on her blog about every ingredient and recipe imaginable.

Just some practical things:
- why would you want to freeze the lotion? (to avoid preservatives? Bad idea)
- oily wipes work well too and ar super easy to make
- put the lotion in a pump, clean the baby and apply the lotion with your hands
- indeed - no tee tree or other essential oils for a baby; you could add some zinc oxide to the lotion though.

Practically a 70% water content should give a milky solution.
I gather the CB is for film forming? (like a barrier cream); Fractionated coconut oil i.s.o. normal coconut oil will give you a thinner lotion. Other oils like rice bran are very conditioning too.

Usually one would add some humectants/goodies - glycerin, hydrolyzed proteins, honeyquat.
That would leave you with 15% oils and 5 e-wax for a nice milk.

Just an idea.
but check out SCM's blog; that was a golden tip from elmtree!

Great tip from elmtree about Swift's blog. I'm embarrassed I didn't think to mention it especially since I've recommended her site numerous times in the past.

The link so you don't have to google it. --> http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/

Thanks for the responses everyone :*) Sorry for my own late reply... I'm 8 1/2 months preggo and still working.... sooo tired :*)

I actually LOVE SwiftCraftyMonkey's blog, I set my phone to alert me when there is an update :*) I've just been having a hard time finding an answer specific enough because it seems everyone's main goal is that they arent runny! haha :*) I especially love reading posts where she reverse engineers a product! :*D

As to why I want to freeze... yes because I'd rather not mess around with a concept I don't 100% understand around my baby, and as inexperienced as I am, I don't feel comfy making something (even with a preservative) and letting it sit on the changing table. I can take all the precautions in the world about making it sterile, but what if I naively did something that rendered the preservative less effective? As someone who went to school to become an esthetician, improperly preserved lotion is downright terrifying! (And I already have enough dreams where he shrivels into nothing because "I" forgot to feed him, and then I have to soak him in the sink so he plumps back up, but then he starts shrinking and disappears!!! D*: ) I thought freezing (maybe like a weeks portion at a time?) made sense. :*O

And re: the coconut oil... I love the smell of the virgin stuff : ) And I feel safe using it on my behbeh : ) Super sophisticated reasoning X*D

And honestly I hadn't thought about using as a barrier; I was planning on using the burt's bees baby products I received on his little hiney. I just got into my head the idea to make a thin emulsion instead of just using water on the wipes. Something a little softer. Like cetaphil for the butt!

Good to know about the EOs... I've seen homemade wipe solution recipes where they use lavender, chamomile, and tea tree (among others) EOs but I just didn't feel comfortable using what I don't fully-ish understand.

I went ahead and ordered the e-wax... even if the frozen wipe stuff doesn't work out I know I'll want to watch water and oil become one <3 It's just as magical as making soap!

Thank you for giving me some percentages to start with! :*D As soon as I get the ewax in I'll mix up a teeny batch to freeze and remelt and report back on how THAT part turned out

ETA: There's a limit on smilies! D*:

Dear Kim,
I know you're pregnant, I understand you care about your baby.. believe me - even the dreams are normal.

But please, don't freeze your lotion; it really is not the way to go!
Be sensible and use a preservative like Germall Plus and you can sleep tight and without nightmares.

Send Susan (SCM) an email with your question; perhaps you will believe her.

Wishing you a smooth delivery and a perfect healthy baby!

eucalypta said:

Send Susan (SCM) an email with your question; perhaps you will believe her.

Click to expand...

I cannot help but feel a little affronted by this line... when have I proved to be obstinate?

If you tell me why freezing an emulsion for a week is terrible, bad, dangerous, (And why ice cubes or frozen breast milk aren't) I will gladly throw the whole project out the window and buy premade solution instead. Seriously. I came to ask questions because I have questions not answers.

Just want to clarify, I'm not making a lotion to moisturize his skin. I'm making a... soap free cleanser, maybe. Not even. Just.... soft white water. Unfreezing cubes 1 or 2x a day to pour over cloth wipes in a warmer. I will go through an entire portion in a week, maybe less.

I cannot help but feel a little affronted by this line...

Click to expand...

My apologies; I dídn't intend to patronize.

Just trying to help; I thought I tried to answer most of your questions about formulating a milky lotion type solution, passing on "best practices" at the same time.

It remains your choice to follow up on those or not, no offense.

Swift does have a milk spray recipe on her blog. If you are looking for a recipe for a cleanser you might have to just play around with a formulation using the amounts of each ingredient you would like to use. If other people do make this it's likely they won't want to give out their recipes which is completely understandable since these take many months/years to perfect.

I know eucalypta didn't intend her remark as it came across to you. I've never seen her post anything which was rude or disrespectful. She's always been helpful so please don't let it upset you. It's easy to misunderstand the intention for what is written since you can't see facial expressions or hear tone of voice. I actually took it as being expressed facetiously because of the wink smiley.

Anyway, I started to think about freezing a lotion and realized commercial manufacturers include ingredients to stabilize them. Most people who make their own lotions don't include these additives because it would defeat the purpose of eliminating what is considered unnecessary or unwanted ingredients. I also started to think about how water expands when frozen and contracts when thawed; whereas oil wouldn't since it doesn't really freeze. I won't say oil can't freeze if it got cold enough but it wouldn't freeze along with water. I saw some experiments which showed freezing oil and water together and they did separate; however, these weren't emulsified it's possible this might make a difference. But I think the expansion and contraction (change in density, water crystallizes and oils don't) would cause the emulsion to break. But I'm not a scientist or chemist so it's highly probable I don't know what I'm talking about with this subject.

Perhaps you could make just enough to last a couple of days and keep it in the frig? But take a small portion and freeze it to see if it would be possible to freeze and thaw. Out of curiosity, I put a little of my lotion in the freezer to see what would happen. However, this is a lotion that is of a heavier consistency so it might not be useful information for you when I find out the results.

I was wondering, could you make a mix of just the ewax and oils and then mix what you needed daily with water? That way you wouldn't have to freeze or use a preservative since there will be no water in the mix until you are ready to use it.

Well, I was wrong. My lotion froze and thawed out just fine. I froze it on Thursday and took it out in the evening. I used it that evening, then used it yesterday and today. Still easy to apply and hasn't separated; however, I only used 64% water for the lotion. You'd still have to test yours since you'll be using a higher percentage of water.