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Soap Making Forum > The Soap Making & Craft Forum > Beginners Soap Making Forum > What to use as antioxidants?
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:01 PM   #21
Zany_in_CO
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In an excellent study on DOS that appeared in The Journal of the Hancrafted Soapmaker Guild in 2004/2005, it mentions the efficacy of BHT + Sodium Citrate in reducing the appearance of DOS. Personally, I use ROE and add a little Vitamin E for its skin-loving properties to almost all my oils once opened. Normally, I would share the link to the following information, but all I have is the PDF file. The following quote is at the end and contains the conclusions drawn from the study:

Quote:
Do additves do better when combined?
We next looked at combinations of additives. Vitamin E (0.1 g) + Sodium Citrate (0.1g) performed slightly better than Vitamin E alone, that is to say, it did not perform very well. ROE + Sodium Citrate actually performed worse than ROE alone. Three combinations, however, performed dramatically better than any single additive. BHT + EDTA and ROE + EDTA each lengthened the induction period beyond 300 hours and held the eventual color saturation below 25%.
(Unable to show Chart)
The best combination in our tests, however, came from BHT + Sodium Citrate. Used together, they lengthened the induction period beyond 300 hours and held the eventual color saturation to about 10%, the same color as fresh soap.
(Unable to show Chart)
As a result of our tests we suggest that by using 0.1% of your oil weight of BHT and Sodium Citrate you may altogether prevent the appearance of DOS. Inevita- bly, however, we will run into the ongoing, quasi-religious debate between the use of natural and artificial additives. A full discussion of that debate is probably better left for another article.

Suffice it to say that while I, personally, have no qualms about the use of artificial additives, there are many in the handcrafted soap community who do. In particular, many of your customers may value natural ingredients, perhaps even insisting on them. I believe that one of the chief advantages which the handcrafted soapmaker has over the industrial soapmaker is the ability to tailor soap recipes to the preferences of individual customers.

If your client base is heavily tilted toward natural ingredients, using 0.1% of your oil weight in ROE is very likely to significantly extend your shelf life. If, on the other hand, your client base is indifferent to the natural/artificial distinction, the combination of BHT and Sodium Citrate is likely to out-perform ROE as a preservative.

Whatever you decide to do, I would urge you to accurately label your soaps. People have myriad reasons for their preferences, some due to medical conditions, some due to allergies, some due to crackpot theories or personal whims. They have a right to those preferences, whatever their reasons. Your only choice is whether or not to serve customers with those particular preferences.
HTH


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Old 03-20-2017, 07:37 PM   #22
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Since I buy all my lard from Walmart, I don't want DOS and I don't give two you know what about scaremongering (and I'm not looking to sell), where do you buy BHT or EDTA for that matter ? I checked with the online soap suppliers I have bought from (Saffire Blue, Voyageur soap and New Directions) and none of them seem to have BHT or EDTA.


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Old 03-20-2017, 08:04 PM   #23
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I buy my Tetrasodium EDTA from LotionCrafter


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Old 03-20-2017, 11:06 PM   #24
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Thank you for that info ! I will pick some up along with ROE.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:19 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by beardguy View Post
Since I buy all my lard from Walmart, I don't want DOS and I don't give two you know what about scaremongering (and I'm not looking to sell), where do you buy BHT or EDTA for that matter ? I checked with the online soap suppliers I have bought from (Saffire Blue, Voyageur soap and New Directions) and none of them seem to have BHT or EDTA.
If you are buying the armour brand lard, it has BHT added.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:37 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by mx6inpenn View Post
If you are buying the armour brand lard, it has BHT added.
Sadly, Walmart doesn't seem to carry Armour lard around here, only Tenderflake. It still has bht, bha and citric acid.
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:41 AM   #27
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Sadly, Walmart doesn't seem to carry Armour lard around here, only Tenderflake. It still has bht, bha and citric acid.
Walmart is so unpredictable that way! I have discovered in my travels that I cannot count on any given Walmart to carry the same brands, or even sometimes, the same product. But it sure makes shopping interesting.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:17 PM   #28
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Rune, I am sort of a newbie to CP too. But I think I have found my groove. My favorite thing to do is substitute the water or some of the water of your lye with juices or purees from natural elements. Soaping1o1 on utube has amazing videos on this.

The other day I had vegetables left (carrots and cucumbers) and I juiced them to use as my lye water. Loved the results, it did not even need color or fragrance. You can get your antioxidants that way.
A great idea! I have been thinking about that, sort of. Because in Sweden they have all sorts of concentrated juice packages. A small package that you must dillute at home, it gives 1 litre. But I found out that every single one of them had citric acid added to them, and I thought no, that will destroy the lye. But now I hear that citric acid is a wanted ingrediens. So I will buy some of those juices. The only problem is that I don't know how much citric acid they contain. But I guess that is possible to find out. It is especially the lingonberry juice I want to make soap with. That juice is bright red and taste fantastic! They also have blueberry juice and much more. And they are dead cheap. Here in Norway, nothing like that exists. We have only regular fruit juices and not very many to choose from. And they are not cheap either. To juice fruits and vegetables myself is at the moment not an option, because I then have to buy a fruit juicer. Not that they aren't cheap, but it's easier to just buy premade. And there will be no clutter from unused kitchen appliances all over the place. Plus vegetables and fruits are expensive here. We are so far north that the shipping from Southern Europe, where they are produced, is extreme. Paprika costs around $5,50 per kilo, for example. One cucumber is around $1,70. But I want to make a carrot soap. And there is no carrot juice nowhere to be found here or in Sweden, except from a very expensive and very bad tasting one with muddy color. So I have to find a way to make carrot juice without a juicer. A blender will maybe do the job.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:48 PM   #29
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Also, if you plan on making 100% castille it's not a very good soap and needs to cure a very long time. A year and it's an okay soap.
A year, hmm. Yes, I don't know how long it have to cure except that it has to be at least 4 months. I saw testing done in South Africa, one lady that had several castile soaps from several curing times, and there was little difference from 4 months and upward, the did only get a little harder. BUT, that is South Africa, a hot country. This country is cold and humid. So I had calculated that I have to cure at least 5 months. But maybe it will need a full year. And that is why I am so afraid of DOS. The longer time it cures, the higher the chances are for the free flowing oils to go rancid.

I will anyway add some stearic acid or other rock hard waxes. Both so it can unmold without waiting a week, and that it gets a little extra hardness to make it last longer in the shower.

If other fats, like coconut and so on, where available here for an okey price, then I would most likely had decided on some sort of Bastille soap recipe. The only place I can get coconut oil for an acceptable price, is if I order online from abroad. But that is a pain like no other. Because we have nazi customs. They stop every single parcel, and if you are very, very lucky and good to make up stories, they let the parcel pass thru customs without sending you a bill with a $25 fee and 25% VAT. We can order for a value no more than $41 INCLUDED the price for the shipping. So I can't get much coconut oil for that price.

There is another way, and that is to mail the company and ask if they can send the parcel from a private person's name and wrap it as a present. Like write happy birthday all over it and such. That works, but you see, it is so much work ordering online from abroad, that oils and fats are the last thing I want to buy. There are no Norwegian suppliers either, apart from health stores with their hefty prices. So I have to use what I can find in grocery stores. And luckily, olive oil is so cheap it is almost for free. We have coconut fat in stores as well, but that is for baking and the price is quite a lot for only 250 grams. The price for 250 grams of coconut is around the same as for 4000 grams (4 litre) of olive oil. So that's why it has to be castile soaps. At least I will start there first, since I am not rich at the moment.

But coconut and such are available if I ask a bakery to order it for me. Their suppliers have all sorts of fats, and I guess the prices are lower than in grocery stores, and in bigger packages. Like 10 kilos or so.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:53 PM   #30
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Here is a list of things with very high antioxidant levels:

https://www.superfoodly.com/orac-values/

Dragon's blood, that should do the trick. But I imagine that it is very, very expensive, and it will not dissolve in oil easily. Astaxanthin powder is maybe easier to use.


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