Superfat - Specifically Specific

Hi All,

I've been trolling our forum and stalking a few of our "master posters" (in a totally good way:wave trying to come up the a shaving cream/soap/croap. Throughout it all I've come up with a few questions that while addressed, didn't give me the definitive feeling of knowing for sure, lol. I think my issue is wanting to know it all insideout...well that and being really retentive.

So I've gotten quite a bit of insight from reading the post "My first shaving soap is a success!" a few times, as well as a couple other threads discussing superfatting and the pros/cons of pre and post cook, and whether or not there is any true/perceived benefit of superfat and/or specific oil superfat, short of ensuring safe lye levels in the finished product. However, I still have some curiosity on the specifics.

I've decided I want to superfat with a specific oil. While I'm calculating the recipe (SoapCalc, etc.) should I add the superfat oil (at the superfat %) to the regular ingredients and Calc as normal, then reserve it to add after cook? Or should I just set superfat % to 0 then add the oil after cook? My hesitancy is if I don't add to ingredients pre-calc, then my liquid, lye, and weight whould be incorrect, no? And if I do add to ingredients but reserve, then I'm still off on liquid and lye for saponification I would think. I know there is a safe way to do this, and it should be obvious to me, but my over thinking brain won't let me find it lol.

Also...and hopefully much easier...does hemp seed oil carry any analgesic properties if used as my superfat? I've experianced some homemade shave soap with hemp seed oil and it seemed very forgiving and if I didn't know better, somewhat numbing during a straight razor shave. Regardless, that soap was just the best I've ever used and I want to make something similar.

Thanks everyone! I appreciate any input I get, and really love hanging out with you guys.

TwoScoops

Are you opposed to switching to the Soapee calculator? I personally prefer it and it allows more easily for dual-lye recipes and the option of adding a superfat after cook value. I know a lot of people like SoapCalc, but I made the switch and like Soapee waaaay better. :mrgreen:

Long post warning ...

I wrote this for soapcalc calculations, but toxikon is right, in that soapee also can do dual lye recipes easily!

I'll start this by saying that I soap, but I don't make shaving soaps in particular, so I'll answer from a more general (and more specific, in one instance) perspective.

TwoScoops67 said:

I've decided I want to superfat with a specific oil. While I'm calculating the recipe (SoapCalc, etc.) should I add the superfat oil (at the superfat %) to the regular ingredients and Calc as normal, then reserve it to add after cook? Or should I just set superfat % to 0 then add the oil after cook? My hesitancy is if I don't add to ingredients pre-calc, then my liquid, lye, and weight whould be incorrect, no? And if I do add to ingredients but reserve, then I'm still off on liquid and lye for saponification I would think. I know there is a safe way to do this, and it should be obvious to me, but my over thinking brain won't let me find it lol.

Click to expand...

Hi TwoScoops, please bear with me while I do a little background blurb. You can glaze over and skip this if you want, but it might be helpful to you (I wasn't sure, so I've put it in for you).

Blurb:
How Soapcalc works out your "superfat":
Soapcalc works by calculating how much sodium/potassium hydroxide you need to saponify your oils.
You control the weight of oils that go into your recipe.
When you enter your superfat percentage, soapcalc doesn't increase your oil weight to create the superfat, but instead discounts the lye (hydroxide/water mix) amount needed, until the final soap is superfatted to your desire percentage.

How to calculate your water amount:
The water amount should calculated in relation to how much lye is needed. The second setting will need to be changed to either lye concentration or water to lye ratio (with one rule - don't try and make a solution more concentrated than 50%, or a 1:1 water to "lye" ratio, with a 2:1 ratio as a reasonable starting point).
There are a few posts around, but very briefly it is the lye concentration (the amount of water to sodium hydroxide) that controls how fast the soaping reaction goes and at what temperature gel occurs. Control the lye concentration and you will get much better control over your soaping experience (and you won't need to think about how or when to adjust water, you just set your concentration and you are good to go).

The method for adding your superfat after the cook (when saponification is finished and the soap doesn't zap) needs a bit more text (sorry, it's late here and I'm very tired and haven't polished the text to brevity).

The weight of the sodium hydroxide (lye) is calculated according to the designated SAP value of the oil. When you mix a number of oils, the SAP value is averaged out according to the percentages of oil you are using.

When you superfat with an oil (or blend) that does not have the same SAP value as the combined oils, you will get a fluctuation in how much superfat you are actually applying.

This fluctuation in the superfat is mostly influenced by the percentage amount of the superfat you have chosen, and the types of oils you use, both in your main blend, and as your superfat. For example, olive and coconut have very different SAP values, which could lead to a fluctuation of up to 2% in the superfat value, if you choose to superfat a soap made of half-each of these oils at a 10% superfat.

With either method, you just need to ensure that your superfat is higher than about 3% *edited to add, so further safety calculations are not necessary as the hot soap batter will absorb whatever extra oil it needs when you add the superfat.

With your first method (add the superfat oil/blend in, calculate, reserve oil, cook soap, add superfat oil/blend back) (*edited to remove unnecessary calculation), the biggest advantage is that you end up with the same weight of soap batter as you calculated in your recipe.

If you choose your second method (calculate your soap recipe without the superfat oil/blend, and add it in as an extra after the cook), (*edited to remove unnecessary calculation) you will end up with more soap than was in your original recipe.

Because of the potential fluctuation, you won't have absolute control over every single percentage point of your superfat (*edited to remove unnecessary content).

With some more maths than I want to think about at the moment, you could probably get finer control over the percentages, but at some point it becomes non-sensical anyway, as the starting SAP value is a nominal value set by the calculator from a range that is normal for the oils you are using.

TwoScoops67 said:

Also...and hopefully much easier...does hemp seed oil carry any analgesic properties if used as my superfat? I've experianced some homemade shave soap with hemp seed oil and it seemed very forgiving and if I didn't know better, somewhat numbing during a straight razor shave.

Regardless, that soap was just the best I've ever used and I want to make something similar.

Click to expand...

Hemp is related that sleep-inducing drug, and is also related to hops (that is used to flavour beer). A not-so-well known fact about hops is that it was originally used as a sleeping aid by royalty - a satchet of the flower bracts would be placed under, or in, ones pillow at bedtime.

So, there might be something to your thinking, in that this entire family of plant carries some interesting properties associated with pain relief and sleepiness. Whether this can be transferred through the skin in such a brief amount of time, I don't know, but I wouldn't be ruling it out without testing your theory, if I were in your shoes

I've decided I want to superfat with a specific oil. While I'm calculating the recipe (SoapCalc, etc.) should I add the superfat oil (at the superfat %) to the regular ingredients and Calc as normal, then reserve it to add after cook? Yes, this is how you do it.

And if I do add to ingredients but reserve, then I'm still off on liquid and lye for saponification I would think. I know there is a safe way to do this, and it should be obvious to me, but my over thinking brain won't let me find it lol. I am assuming you are superfatting in the 5%-10% range. So you'll be fine.

What do you plan to do to combat hemp oil's tendency to go rancid? Shaving soap lasts a LONG time.

Thanks everyone, this is all very helpful. While I'm realy just starting out, I like getting "down in the weeds" as I'm a total geek when it comes to theory and process, which allows a better visualization of what I'm trying to achieve.

SaltedFig said:

The weight of the sodium hydroxide (lye) is calculated according to the designated SAP value of the oil. When you mix a number of oils, the SAP value is averaged out according to the percentages of oil you are using.

Click to expand...

This makes much better sense and really addresses my worry about reserving one oil vs. another and messing up the SAP values. But if it's an average I don't have to worry so much as long as there's enough superfat to cover any extra lye floating around after cook.

SaltedFig said:

With either method, you just need to ensure that your superfat is higher than about 3% *edited to add, so further safety calculations are not necessary as the hot soap batter will absorb whatever extra oil it needs when you add the superfat.

Click to expand...

Honestly, prior to reading these responces, 3% was about all I was planning to take it to but...

dixiedragon said:

I am assuming you are superfatting in the 5%-10% range. So you'll be fine.

Click to expand...

...makes much better sense as I'll need to account for saponification of some of my superfat by whatever leftover lye there might be.

toxikon said:

Are you opposed to switching to the Soapee calculator? I personally prefer it and it allows more easily for dual-lye recipes and the option of adding a superfat after cook value.

Click to expand...

I've played around with Soapee and I'm definately not opposed to trying it. I just wasn't really sure how the "after cook" part worked. But now I think I understand it a bit more and can see the benefit.

BrewerGeorge said:

What do you plan to do to combat hemp oil's tendency to go rancid? Shaving soap lasts a LONG time.

Click to expand...

Honestly, and most likely why you asked, I hadn't thought about this at all. I didn't know this would be an issue, but yes, I definately don't want spoilage after X amount of time because the product will be around a while. I plan to use the basic recipe from "My first shaving soap is a success!" and add the hemp seed oil as my superfat. Is there a preservative I could use that would still qualify the soap as "soap"? Thanks again people! This community is awesome!

I do mine in a less complicated (maybe more complicated) way.

I take my superfat out of the recipe and calculate that with a 0% lye discount, then add in my superfat. Example -

My recipe is 1000g and my superfat is 5%. That means that I need to remove my superfat from the recipe and recalculate for a 950g batch. When I add in my superfat, my total oil size is 1000g and the lye used was good for the oils which I wanted to saponify