CP Felted Soap Problem

"...I was curious if any other felters have had this issue and what recipe worked better for them...."

No, I have not, because I know enough about designing a soap recipe for a given purpose to avoid that problem. I have already outlined the basic ideas that you would want to consider for a soap recipe that would be good for making wet-felted soap bars.

Soaping is not a "one size fits all" craft any more than felting is. There will be many good recipes that will fit your needs. Which recipe is best for you depends on the ingredients available to you and what your preferences are. Some people won't use palm. Others object to animal fats. For some, the selection of fats available to them is limited.

I don't have a clue where you live in the world, what soaping fats are available to you, and what you do and don't like in a soap recipe. If you'd like constructive help, it would be nice to know more about these issues.

I believe she unsubscribed and left. As I said previously, it is very difficult to some new soapers to hear the advice that they should wait before selling and why.

I wondered about that, Newbie. I wanted to make one last effort to help her, just in case she was still around.

Felting is a cool craft, but there's a learning curve with it too, especially if you want to make felt that is truly beautiful, durable, and long lasting. I see a lot of newbie felters churn out stuff that I'm sure will pill, stretch, and look unsightly after some use, but they're content to dabble, rather than work to improve their game. I'm not a novice felter anymore -- I'm at the point now where I know how much I don't know -- but I'm getting better. I love the few times when my projects have turned out really nice, rather than merely acceptable. Same with soap.

kchaystack said:

My comments were kind and patient. Trust me, there are far more harsh critics of what you did on this site than me.

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No, they weren't. Just because others are even ruder and more brash does not make your statements in any way "kind." I'm not choosing you to pick on, you just happened to be the most recent example of this type of bad behavior on this site.

You need to have a much thicker skin if you are going to survive on the internet, my friend.

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Keep that in mind.

I didn't think his comments were mean. Just telling it like it is. I'm a New Yorker though - it's a tough skin State

Millie said:

I didn't think his comments were mean. Just telling it like it is. I'm a New Yorker though - it's a tough skin State

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I've noticed that a LOT of people here like to lean on the crutch of "telling it like it is" as a means of discarding civility.

I know that several people here are touchy about people selling soap after what they think is too little time in the hobby. But that should still never, ever supersede being cordial and welcoming. It's not just this particular questioner getting slammed, I see it every day and that does not speak well of the forum.

It's as though people here have never been on a forum (or have not researched forum discussion for long enough) and should not be in the big leagues of forum talk just yet.

How was it rude? If someone is selling, we are going beyond pure cordiality in to a business type of attitude. If a friend makes you a meal and it's not great, you might well be nice and pretend that it was okay. If a chef does it, it's not rude to say "that was not good, you shouldn't be a chef"

If someone (or the op in this case) has issues with a product and can't sort out those issues, it's not rude to point out that this person should not be selling that product. At all.

randycoxclemson said:

I've noticed that a LOT of people here like to lean on the crutch of "telling it like it is" as a means of discarding civility.

I know that several people here are touchy about people selling soap after what they think is too little time in the hobby. But that should still never, ever supersede being cordial and welcoming. It's not just this particular questioner getting slammed, I see it every day and that does not speak well of the forum.

It's as though people here have never been on a forum (or have not researched forum discussion for long enough) and should not be in the big leagues of forum talk just yet.

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Randycoxclemson, I have been known for my blunt way of speaking probably most of my life and it has got me into hot water more than once when I had no intention of hurting another's feelings. I am not making an excuse for the tendency, but pointing out a fact of my own history for background to the forthcoming question.

Not knowing how each person will respond, even face to face, but more so behind the screen, what would you suggest as a more civil (for want of a better word) way to say what we think about selling untested products? I am surmising a more gentle approach would be your suggestion, but I could be wrong. Perhaps no response, if our hackles are raised?

I am serious, because this does come up and I am fairly new to the forum compared to many here already. And as I said before, I have a history of not pulling punches when it comes to certain things.

Probably pretty much a moot point, but I'll chime in anyhow. I'm still really new to this forum. Been here about a month. And I've already seen it half a dozen times- someone decides they're going to make and sell soap without knowing much of anything really about the process, or what makes a good soap, or what problems can crop up. The extent of their research is usually watching a tutorial video or two. There are hundreds (if not thousands) of tutorial videos for making soap, how hard can it be? Then they show up here asking questions when their second or third batch goes wrong somehow. And yes, they often get crucified for putting their cart before their horses when they start off saying "I just started making and selling soap." I can understand where the more experienced people here are coming from. Poor craftsmanship and hobbyist pricing erodes the market for hand made soap.

randycoxclemson said:

It's as though people here have never been on a forum (or have not researched forum discussion for long enough) and should not be in the big leagues of forum talk just yet.

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Is there a forum on foruming? :headbanging:
It is a good idea to address how we react to hot button topics. A diplomatic blend of "welcome/congratulations /don't sell your first batch" would be nice.

All in all, if you intend to school us on forum etiquette, wouldn't it be more appropriate to approach this topic without singling someone out? A new thread on etiquette would get more people involved, and doesn't require anyone to have a thick skin.

As a customer, this is second worst thing can happen. The first is if a soap that can shed your skin off. Totally DOS and darn gooey slime. I haven't open the package. This happened after its in my hand less than 3 months.

This cost USD $ 5.83 for 50 grams. It's 72% sweet almond oil. Other ingredients are castor oil,coconut oil,palm oil, meadowfoam oil,loofah dew， gardenia EO(???), vetiver, jasmine, wild ginger flower EO (???) , cedarwood, lemon,sandalwood , amyris EO
This is some " famously great " indie brand in my country. I find her products Like POO POO.
Definitely under well-cured, her other 72% soft oil soap last like a week. I mean a 100 gram bar. Gooey slimy snotty poo poo. Very poorly made.
Please define the kind of soap or soaper for me.

She's lucky she did not burn someone else's skin off. It is just a DARN dreaded orange spots ALL OVER her soap!!!!!

ETA: this soap send out right after its cured. It was a "pre-cured sale". So basically it went CRAZY DOS in 3 months after it was made.

By the way, in your kind of forum etiquette, how do a BIG LEAGUE member react to this kind of soap or soaper? Should I just ROLL my EYES and SUCK it UP? I think people here did NOT CRUCIFIED her, nor did anyone sound MEAN and RUDE.
If they're rude, they would not even bother reply their LONG and HELPFUL responses. Or they can even start name-calling...
I'm not trying to troll you, Randy, or the original poster. I'm trying to explain the consequences of newbie selling too soon. Try to feel it in my shoes if you were the customer, how would you react?

Millie said:

Is there a forum on foruming? :headbanging:

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Laughed so hard I almost fell off my rocking chair! Millie, you never cease to amaze and entertain! Gotta love it. I'd stick a heart emoticon in here, but, interestingly, there's not one available.

Millie said:

Is there a forum on foruming? :headbanging:
It is a good idea to address how we react to hot button topics. A diplomatic blend of "welcome/congratulations /don't sell your first batch" would be nice.
.

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Actually the general response to this hot topic has been toned down a lot within the last 12 months. Instead of 8 people chiming in to the post only one or two make the comment.

The thing is if you aren't told of the consequences how would you know not to sell your second batch unless you are a perfectionist who takes years to get the perfect product?

I think the main reason the OP left was because she wanted a no fail recipe and discovered the she wasn't going to get one instantly (because it's actually not possible in these circumstances) and went elsewhere to get the answer she wanted to hear.

Cherrycoke I hope you let the seller know and got your money back!

Newbie here so forgive me in advance.

Newbie and Earlene answered her questions and advise her not to sell but in a very constructive way. As individuals, we greatly differs in how we communicate and how we receive criticism but I think the onus is on the communicator to communicate criticisms without coming across as either being judgmental or disparaging.

Sometimes it is difficult to do this when one sees or read a hot bottom issue like this one when the newbie is about to start selling substandard products that's going to ruin years and years of experimenting and costs that other experienced Soapers have put in. In this case it's better to either ignore the poster or respond when you are are feeling chilled after a couple of glasses of Red/white wine.

Sometimes the soaping bug bites and you just want to make soap and the next thing that comes to mind is selling, please understand it is sometimes the way of a newbie. That is why we need experienced Soapers to say 'earth to newbie' but in such a way that the Poster doesn't go into depression or never soap again or felt they were rushed out of the forum.

We are different and we react differently when we feel people are being harsh with us. We either want to fight or flight!

I have actually taken to just adding them to the ignore list and being done with it. Regardless of how it is pointed out, someone will always get bent out of shape about it. It's not usually the regular contributors, mainly the very occasional posters who come out just for those threads. Which is a shame, that the people who complain about how the tone of the forum makes them post rarely has resulted in me posting less then avoid their misguided ire.

Even worse, by ignoring these people (I refuse to help someone who will sell regardless of the fact that they shouldn't be and so ignoring them saves me having to read their posts at all) and their threads, it might mean that someone else asks a question that I don't answer where my input might have helped them. But as the "white knights of the order of the bad business" have waged their crusade well, it's the only real option for me.

The Efficacious Gentleman said:

I have actually taken to just adding them to the ignore list and being done with it. Regardless of how it is pointed out, someone will always get bent out of shape about it. It's not usually the regular contributors, mainly the very occasional posters who come out just for those threads. Which is a shame, that the people who complain about how the tone of the forum makes them post rarely has resulted in me posting less then avoid their misguided ire.

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I think this is how I am going to handle things from now on. I'll just go into lurk mode, and not offend people any more.

kchaystack said:

I think this is how I am going to handle things from now on. I'll just go into lurk mode, and not offend people any more.

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:cry:

kchaystack said:

First, if you don't have a clue as to what is going on with this - you probably are not ready to be selling soap.

So you made 100% coconut oil soap? It would help when you post a question you include your recipe by weight, including alkali and liquid in your lye, and all additives you used.

But assuming it is 100% CO - the problem is probably that CO soap is VERY soluble in water. You wrapped a bunch of fibers around it that is going to keep the soap very damp. So it is no surprise it got mushy.

I would say you should use oils that produce less soluble soap for felting - like olive.

You can also make sure the soaps have a very well draining soapdish to rest on between uses, so as much water as possible drains away and the bar is not setting in water when not in use.

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This is where written communication gets difficult. Read KC's post through as if it was spoken in a condensing, confrontational, mean spirited tone. Then read it through again in a tone of a normal conversation, offering constructive criticism with good intentions for helping. Unfortunately for the OP, she chose to view it as the former.

KC, for what it's worth, I find your contributions helpful.

kchaystack said:

I think this is how I am going to handle things from now on. I'll just go into lurk mode, and not offend people any more.

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I think that's very disappointing. Just because one person got offended doesn't mean another person would have. Some people really want to learn. The OP wanted a quick fix to her problem. She didn't want to learn. Your post was direct and to the point, not rude. Please continue to contribute. TEG isn't lurking he's just choosing who he'll respond to.

I also think the forum gets a few trolls. First time posters who come in to drop a hot button post to get a reaction. I avoid answering those. Maybe we should have a code phrase like: "fish swim upstream" when we spot one.

I'm kind of liking that people here are so willing to be bang-up-front with 'You are not ready to sell your soap. Here's what else you need to know.' Problem is, the way our society is set up, we're all trained to expect and even demand instant gratification. Everybody wants everything rightnowrightthisinstant. And they don't want to do any work for it, like researching the process they'll be using. I have absolutely no problem with telling people with that attitude off. Only reason I haven't jumped on any of them I've seen show up after I found this forum is that I am still an absolute newbie. If they're serious about wanting to learn about making soap, including how to sell it, they can pull their heads out of their a***s and actually learn something. The knowledge is here, for those with the will to utilize it.