2 questions for experience soapers?

First I was wondering if I make a batch of soap and divided in two, and put one half with the fragrance that is high in vanillin that I know will turn the soap dark brown, and the other half with a complementary fragrance that has 0 vanillin. Will half of the batch go brown, and the other half stay the natural white (ish) color?

Also, I got this butter from WHS a while back and need to use it, but have no idea how to put in the soap calculator. Should I put it as almond butter?

Thanks. :mrgreen:

"...Will half of the batch go brown, and the other half stay the natural white (ish) color?..."

Yep pretty much that's what happens. You can get a little bit of "bleed" between the two different soaps, but not too bad. Some people advise putting a brown colorant into the scented portion to give that bit a more even color. Cocoa would be a good choice for that, but I've done this without an added colorant and was fine with the results.

"...have no idea how to put in the soap calculator. Should I put it as almond butter?..."

WSP says the saponification value is "...NaOH .132, KOH .186..." so find a fat that has that sap value and use that. If almond butter has an NaOH sap value of 0.132, that would work. But the key is matching the sap value.

edit: Ah, found a pic to share, complete with pesky stearic-acid spots --

As far as the discoloring FO is concerned, you can add the discoloring FO to part of the batter and swirl with the unscented batter. Depending on the discoloring FO only the scented portion will discolor; creating a nice swirl effect. However, IME some discoloring FOs will eventually bleed and overtake the entire bar even though the FO was only added to a portion. On the other hand, some FOs will play nice and the swirl will stick around. It just depends on the FO, and how powerfully it discolors.

As far as the chamomile butter is concerned, using www.soapee.com; I would plug it in as illipe butter. Soapee lists illipe butter with a SAP value of 0.132 NaOH which is the same NaOH SAP value that WSP lists for the chamomile butter.

Hope that this helps you out, and happy soaping.

I'm afraid the method of splitting discoloring fo into a different portion of batter with the hopes of keeping the other non-discoloring batter pure has never worked for me. The discoloring has always spread.

SunRiseArts said:

First I was wondering if I make a batch of soap and divided in two, and put one half with the fragrance that is high in vanillin that I know will turn the soap dark brown, and the other half with a complementary fragrance that has 0 vanillin. Will half of the batch go brown, and the other half stay the natural white (ish) color?

Also, I got this butter from WHS a while back and need to use it, but have no idea how to put in the soap calculator. Should I put it as almond butter?

Thanks. :mrgreen:

Click to expand...

I personally would make a lotion or lotion bar with the nice butter containing chamomile extract. I would also use Illipe butter for the SAP value in Soap Calc

Thank you all!

SunRiseArts said:

Also, I got this butter from WHS a while back and need to use it, but have no idea how to put in the soap calculator. Should I put it as almond butter?

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Hi Sunrise,

I think you mean "WSP" instead of "WHS". Yes?

I followed your link, and, just as I suspected, the "butter" part is "hydrogenated vegetable oil". Most likely, hydrogenated soy, IME. In these days of total transparency about what's in products, it baffles me that they wouldn't just say that???

Ingredients: Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil (and) Chamaemelum nobile extract (and) Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil

Your guess is as good as mine as to the amount of almond oil, but I'm guessing 1% chamomile extract, which is typical.

Zany_in_CO said:

Hi Sunrise,

I think you mean "WSP" instead of "WHS". Yes?

.

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Yes

Always typing fast and not checking typos. I am bad at that.

I was new at the soaping thing in CP and just catch my attention, I don't think I will buy that again!

Ok this has been an interesting experiment, thought I share my findings.

I made a one pound with an FO that I know will turn brown (banana crepes, yum), and divided it. I messed up two ways. I did not divide in half, and I put too much FO on the one I know will turn brown. Good thing the manufacture says up to 7%. I was going to put 3/4 of an 1 oz bottle, and when I was doing that my blender went to fall, and well, I catch it, but also dumped the whole bottle of FO .....

Anyway. When I first poured, it all look the same color. That night I took a picture (not a very good one) and it was already turning.




Then I took a picture 24 hours later.



Now 2 days later I cut it. I was so surprised the inside is stil white! But not so on the sides or top. I am guessing that as they cure, and come in contact with the air, it will turn brown. I attempted a swirl on it, You can still see it ....



I will post another pic in a week

"...as they cure, and come in contact with the air, it will turn brown..."

You are exactly right. I'm curious to see how your swirl looks in a week or two. More photos, please?

DeeAnna said:

"...as they cure, and come in contact with the air, it will turn brown..."

You are exactly right. I'm curious to see how your swirl looks in a week or two. More photos, please?

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Me too!

bumbleklutz said:

Me too!

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Me three!!

Right now the white centers remind me of chocolate covered marshmallows... Yum.

Alright here is another pic a couple of days later. I will watch it and take another one in 6 weeks! See if there is bleeding into the white.

I actually like them. I have thought of putting vanilla stabilizer, but not sure it would work on CP. Any comments on that?

From what I read, vanilla stabilizer is only a sure thing in MP, after that it becomes an iffy proposition.


My solution is to embrace the brown, I add cocoa if I don't think it will be brown enough. Then I use uncolored or mica colored to swirl. Vanilla is supposed to be brown in everybody's mind, anyway.

Very pretty soap!

If you want the stuff not to turn Brown..
Turn down the heat for that one.
The white normal one I would do as normal.

I have found that when mixing and letting sit and watching soap
. That if you add stuff early on it flips things Brown. Because of the reactions going on
You could wait till like. Med to medium light trace and add it?

I hope that information may help you.

rainmanp7 said:

If you want the stuff not to turn Brown..
Turn down the heat for that one.
The white normal one I would do as normal.

I have found that when mixing and letting sit and watching soap
. That if you add stuff early on it flips things Brown. Because of the reactions going on
You could wait till like. Med to medium light trace and add it?

I hope that information may help you.

Click to expand...

These are actually soaps made with an FO that has a high vanilla content. Pretty much anything with vanilla turns light to dark brown. No way to avoid it.

There are even some other components in FO's that can cause it to turn brown. Has nothing to do with the temp. I soap at RT and it still does it.

SunRiseArts said:

I have thought of putting vanilla stabilizer, but not sure it would work on CP. Any comments on that?

Click to expand...

It depends on how much vanilla is in the FO.

For what it's worth, I've had very good success with BCN's vanilla stabilizer formulated to be used with CP (BCN= BitterCreekNorth). I use it with certain FOs that cause my CP soap to discolor when I want it to remain white, such as WSP's Sugared Spruce which normally discolors to medium tan for me (contains 1.5% vanillin); SC's Santa's Pipe (don't know the exact % of vanillin in it, but it turns dark brown according to reviewers on the SRB); Peak's Holiday Sparkle (don't know the vanillin content, but it normally D's to tan for me); Peak's Winter Wonderland (don't know the vanillin content but it normally D's to light peach/beige for me).

With SC's Santa's Pipe FO, which reviewers report turns dark brown (I can't personally verify how dark brown they get because I'd always colored mine totally black with activated charcoal before ever trying out the stabilizer), the stabilizer holds off the discoloration in my soap for roughly 3 years. It starts gradually discoloring after that. I color the soap white with red and black swirls with the stabilizer.

With all the other FOs I mentioned above, the stabilizer is still holding strong and steady at 2 years and counting, i.e., my soaps are still stark white.

I decided to go with BCN's stabilizer for CP after it was recommended to me by a handful of soapers that I greatly trusted (jcandleattic for one). And I also followed their slightly revised directions when using it- i.e., instead of following BCN's directions to mix it with the FO, I instead stick-blend it into my soaping oils. They assured me I'd have much better results that way, and so far I have been very pleased.

As for the amount of stabilizer- I always use an equal amount of stabilizer as per my FO amount.

I haven't tested it out on any FOs that I know go a really, really dark brown such as Pink Sugar, for example, but according to jcandleattic, her Pink Sugar CP soaps made with BCN's stabilizer don't start turning brown until about 9 months to a year later.


IrishLass

Di you try 1/2 lye, water before..
Get it to where you want..
Then add the other 1/2 ?
Mix real fast and drop?

I'm interested to see if you just add 25% or 50%
At first of the lye.. and all the stuff.
I have notice everything I do always is affected by the soap reaction it's self and the lye..
Once I have reacted the lye and oil to a certain heat stage

And then add the remainder.. then I could maintain color.
But If I added things right off the bat I always run into
Strange fixes..

I have come across this same stuff cold as well.
But If I hold off most of the concoction
At the very beginning..
Get that lye and oil to react enough
To not cause strange issues ..
Then add the remainder when you ready
That has solved me enormous issues.
Another trick I would do.
.. Is count that Vanilla as water. And discount acoordingly.

Thank you for your ideas in advance

I have bad news ...... after several weeks the brown does bleed to the white. I will continue to watch. I am guessing it might take over in time.