Why the hostility from cold and hot process soapers? A brief encounter

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I've seen the same kind of hate in other hobbies too. I brew beer, and some people who make beer from all grain can get pretty snobby about people who buy malt syrup and make beer that way. To me, it doesn't matter your process as long as you (and your customers) like it.

I'm also a pretty huge CP snob
 
I'm a very new soaper but I also feel I couldn't SELL an M&P soap where I did not make the base myself. I know people do it and power to them. Freedom is a beautiful thing.

The supplier I use almost endorses selling soaps made with their base but, to me, it's just 'not the same' as weighing, measuring, cooking, etc all the ingredients myself. And the base I bought (to make a special requested fragrance flavor for my mom) is absolutely made with lye.

I loved the box cake analogy.
 
I've seen the same kind of hate in other hobbies too. I brew beer, and some people who make beer from all grain can get pretty snobby about people who buy malt syrup and make beer that way. To me, it doesn't matter your process as long as you (and your customers) like it.

I'm also a pretty huge CP snob

I don't hate in the other hobby! I'm pretty nice about extract brewing. :smile:

But I do not buy into M&P being "homemade" or "handmade". It's not. It's decorated, melted, etc at home, perhaps, but it isn't homemade soap. It's purchased base, with other stuff added to it. It may be incredibly decorative, and beautifully done- but it isn't homemade soap.

It's not hostility, as I don't care what people buy/sell/make, and I don't sell soap. I do have an issue with misleading and/or misrepresenting it, though.
 
I'll jump in with my opinion. I've worked very hard to make the soap that I do and when I stand next to an MPer who has simply poured a base into a log mold and calls it "natural" and "organic" and "not made with lye", I about blow my top. At my FM, an MPer came in and was asking me all about my soap. One, she was simply AMAZED that I knew how to infuse botanicals (she also did this and put it in her base) and two gave me this snotty look when she told me how she doesn't HAVE to cure HER soaps. Well, no kidding. Then she freaked when I asked her how she got her organic certification. Yeah - she doesn't have one, of course; but still sells her soaps as organic.

While this is not every MPer, I have seen more than a few do the exact same thing; I've even come across some that leave out those tell-tale ingredients so that their soap appears handmade. When MPers make those stunningly gorgeous soaps - that takes a skill that I do not possess and those soaps impress me to no end; some are more than amazing. But cop to the fact that you did not make that soap from scratch. That's all we ask.
 
Here is my two cents.... I absolutely love the look of melt and pour, but two problems I have.... the ones I have used dried my skin out, and the ones I really like to look at, well, I just don't want to use them, they are too beautiful.

I also think that MP may been seen as more of a teen girl craft. It was definitely something I did as a teen; along with candle making kits, paint by number and Shrinky Dinks. ;)
 
Just because one did some botanical infusions and add them to their mp doesnt mean its natural, let alone organic. I would be pissed at that too.
Like some had said, its mainly the misleading words that bothers me. And that goes.both ways, as i've seen cp soapers being adamant with 'i only create au naturel soaps', they mislabeled their ingredients (eg: no such thing as X eo, but they listed it anyway). And sadly, unsuspecting buyers dove in head first, and believed everything that was written.
That said, i do both cp/hp and mp, and i make my own base coz this way i know exactly what was put to the base and such. And although it fits into the category of handmade/homemade, i never list them that way. I simply call them glycerin soaps, coz over here thats what ppl are more familiar to. I also said that the base i'm using is made on my own and contains no sls/sles.
 
Ditto what most have said, I'm probably considered a CP snob but my issue is misleading/incorrect words. MP soaps can be GORGEOUS, and definitely techniques and abilities required that I don't have. But I think when you represent your product as something it isn't (homemade, lye free) then you've just ruined all your credibility for the truth and skill that IS in your product. Know your product, tell the truth, and get the kudos your deserve.
 
I love my CP soap but need to make M&P to unleash the artistic side in me...lol! Seriously, I love the color and scent of M&P soap! It appeals to a different crowd of buyers. It truly is "melt and mold." I love bright colors, embeds and lots of scent...you can't always accomplish this with CP. Hang in there...you will get your M&P groupies! Use a quality base and follow the guidelines for your scents and you will have a quality product!
 
Lin when you make a cookes do you get all the stuff and make from scratch or use a pre made dough and then say I made them. Same as m&p it is and I use the word hand crafted not home made. If lush use words like fresh and they also make m&p which they market as handmade please end this topic now as it will just go back AMD forth
 
Another issue for me is that some MPers (not all, not even many, but some) really don't understand soap at all, so they are selling soap and telling people that their soap doesn't have lye, and that those other soaps do, and lye is bad.

:shock: :-x :evil:
 
I love to do both - there are things I can do with melt and pour (create scenes with embedded soap elements, layer unique artwork using water soluble paper - the soap in my avi is melt and pour) to make really unique and artistic designs that one just cannot do with cold process. There is room for both depending on what one wants for their end product. Now, misrepresenting your product as "natural", "organic", "vegan" etc. is a whole different issue and is usually due to lack of knowledge about what one is creating/selling.
 
Lin when you make a cookes do you get all the stuff and make from scratch or use a pre made dough and then say I made them. Same as m&p it is and I use the word hand crafted not home made. If lush use words like fresh and they also make m&p which they market as handmade please end this topic now as it will just go back AMD forth
When I make cookies I make them from scratch, but I have no idea what that has to do with advocating for people to represent their products truthfully to get the praise they deserve for what they did.

I have a great pumpkin chocolate chip cookie recipe if anyone is interested. Super easy too.
 
I think it's referencing the fact that some people would make cookies from a mix and then call them home made and liking that to people calling M&P home made.

It's an anology that works, to an extent. But the cookie mix still has a transistion from cookie mix to being cookies, including additional ingredients (at the very least water) and then cooking.

M&P requires nothing else - it is finished soap. So it's more similar to buying a plain sponge cake (not a mix, an actual cooked cake) and then decorating it. But you started with a cake.

In all honesty, I would not class either the cookies or cake as homemade, though.
 
Melt and Pour may not "Require" anything else - but there are many, many things you can do with melt and pour that require not only additional ingredients but lots of skill and technique. Some of my melt and pour soaps take much longer to make than the cold process ones do.
 
Melt and Pour may not "Require" anything else - but there are many, many things you can do with melt and pour that require not only additional ingredients but lots of skill and technique. Some of my melt and pour soaps take much longer to make than the cold process ones do.

No arguement there, as I stated in my original post in this thread. I made it clear there that I think the things done with M&P are mind blowingly good. I stand by that.

But it certainly should not be marketed as handmade soap, on which I think we both agree.
 
EG, I get the analogy of making boxed cookies and calling it homemade vs making from scratch, but if you read my post that he replied to it doesn't make any sense. I said people should represent their product truthfully, so why ask me if I represent myself truthfully and reiterate an analogy thats been given many times in the thread already and that I never disagreed with. (and I agree your analogy is closer to what actually happens in m&p soap. Someone can purchase a baked angel food cake, cover it in fondant, hand ice a fancy design on the side, hand shape fondant figures, and sell the cake. Its a work of art and the individual deserves praise for the work they did, but if they were to lie about having baked the angel food cake itself it makes the person untrustworthy and takes away from what they actually DID accomplish and should be proud of.)
 
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No arguement there, as I stated in my original post in this thread. I made it clear there that I think the things done with M&P are mind blowingly good. I stand by that.

But it certainly should not be marketed as handmade soap, on which I think we both agree.

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I don't know about that - the actual soap component portion may not be handmade but in my opinion, for many of these creations the final product is.
 
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I don't know about that - the actual soap component portion may not be handmade but in my opinion, for many of these creations the final product is.

this thread is getting more interesting.

i do agree with FGOriold, and i get why some MPers wanna label their creations as handmade.

catch 22

my take, i dont think i mind the handmade label, but i do wanna see the rest of the words a seller is using to describe her/his products.
 
I personally don't care what others call their soap. If they call it handmade, natural etc....everything is so overused already. I present my products as handcrafted artisan soap, bath and body. No all natural, no made with love not pretense. I make and sell a great product. There is room for everyone. However, I do dislke when those who make MP and present it like it's CP without informing the customers what it is. That's just my personal take. MP has many avenues that it can go down unlike CP. Go with and do what makes you happy and if your customer are happy all the better. Just be honest about what you do.
 
As I said in the original post, it IS a hand made product, and it IS soap. But (and this is a but so big it's like Santa and J-Lo had a love child) it cannot be called homemade/handmade soap - the soap part was bought.

The big issue would be making it clear and concise, which is why I understand the reasons why a lot of M&Pers use the term "homemade soap" - it's just easier. "home enchanced soap" would just sound very odd and would take some explaining.

Artisan soaps might be the best option. "Produced by hand using a quality soap base" for example. But doesn't have the marketing ring that people want to pull in the punters.

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edit, it really doesn't matter to me at the moment, as I don't sell my soap. But I'm a pedant, as you might well be able to tell.
 

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