Reluctant confession of a handmade soap maker

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Big sigh.

My favorite soap is...uh....okay, deep breath....my favorite soap is.....(don't hate me)....store bought.

:headbanging:

http://www.australiansoap.com/pages.php?pageid=92

I'm going to attempt to copy it but wondering:

comparing profiles of lard and palm - I bet they're different enough to impact the results - other opinions?

They only use pko. In terms of measuring bubble - does 10% pko make the equivalent of 10% co?

Their ingredient lists palm kernel fatty acid. Curious. What are they trying to say there? Isn't that just saponified pko?

And salt is listed as a natural product of saponification, but they don't mean sodium chloride, right?

Does the triple milling process affect the qualities of the soap - like the softness of the lather, slip, etc?

Not a lot of large bubbles - maybe even less than 10% pko, more creamy with a milky layer as well. Sleek feel to the bar, soft lather.
 
Teehee, you are so brave! Coincidentally I bought a bar of their soap last week to see what the shop girls were raving about and compare my soaps. At first it felt creamy and silky to me, then a bit slimy and took a while to rinse off. It does make me want to work on the silkiness of my soaps but I still like mine better. Of course, I really wanted to like mine better... ;)

Does it feel very different from other triple milled soaps? It was the first non CP soap I've tried in a long time.

The wording on the ingredient page bugs me a bit, paraphrasing: 'palm processed with NaOH "and salt" to produce soap and glycerin'... 'without the 0.1% artificial ingredients would have to refrigerate soap for a 6 month shelf life'...
 
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The wording on the ingredient page bugs me a bit, paraphrasing: 'palm processed with NaOH "and salt" to produce soap and glycerin'... 'without the 0.1% artificial ingredients would have to refrigerate soap for a 6 month shelf life'...


Those bugged me, too, and also their comments about tallow. Since when did tallow become a soap base? Tallow is a fat, not a soap base! :-?

comparing profiles of lard and palm - I bet they're different enough to impact the results - other opinions?

I find lard and palm to feel very different in soap. About 7 years ago or so I conducted a test whereby I made two batches of soap using the same formula, except in one batch I used 26% palm and in the other I used 26% lard. The lard batch won hands down, no doubt about it. It felt so much nicer on my skin and the lather had such a wonderfully creamy depth/body to it that the palm batch lacked.

They only use pko. In terms of measuring bubble - does 10% pko make the equivalent of 10% co?

If you ask me- coconut has a bit of an edge on PKO in the lather department. I base this on my comparison tests between 100% CO bars with a 20% s/f and 100% PKO bars with a 20% s/f that I made. Both bars produced wonderfully bubbly lather, but the coconut bars were easier and quicker to lather, and the lather had more depth to it (it felt richer and more luxuriant- more 3-dimensional).

Their ingredient lists palm kernel fatty acid. Curious. What are they trying to say there? Isn't that just saponified pko?

If that were the case, it would be called sodium (or potassium) palm kernelate. I think they are talking about an FFA (free fatty acid). Hopefully DeeAnna or someone else more in the know can chime in on that.

And salt is listed as a natural product of saponification, but they don't mean sodium chloride, right?

I don't know why they even mention salt in the way that they do. I find their wordings and explanations to all be very odd.

Does the triple milling process affect the qualities of the soap - like the softness of the lather, slip, etc?

I've used lots of triple-milled soaps in my life, and the only thing I've found it to have any affect on is the hardness and longevity of a soap. Things such as softness of lather and slip don't even figure into it, if you ask me. I can get lots of wonderful slip and soft lather in my CP to rival and/or beat any triple-milled soap that I've ever tried....but I sure can't beat them in the hardness or longevity department.


IrishLass :)
 
Big sigh.

My favorite soap is...uh....okay, deep breath....my favorite soap is.....(don't hate me)....store bought.

:headbanging:

http://www.australiansoap.com/pages.php?pageid=92

I'm going to attempt to copy it but wondering:

comparing profiles of lard and palm - I bet they're different enough to impact the results - other opinions?

They only use pko. In terms of measuring bubble - does 10% pko make the equivalent of 10% co?

Their ingredient lists palm kernel fatty acid. Curious. What are they trying to say there? Isn't that just saponified pko?

And salt is listed as a natural product of saponification, but they don't mean sodium chloride, right?

Does the triple milling process affect the qualities of the soap - like the softness of the lather, slip, etc?

Not a lot of large bubbles - maybe even less than 10% pko, more creamy with a milky layer as well. Sleek feel to the bar, soft lather.

These have the same ingredient list as L'Occitane soap which I've used for years before starting to make my own. I suspect they are selling very similar French milled soaps. I recently found an old L'Occitane bar (at least 5 years old) in the back of the cabinet and tried to use it. I ended up dumping it because it was so much harsher than my own soaps.

The triple milling strips the glycerin which isn't good. They sell it separately to make more money. Milling makes for a harsher soap overall but it is harder and lasts longer. It just sounds like a good thing.

Palm make more "anemic" soaps compared to lard. I can't use lard because it makes me itch like crazy so I'm stuck with palm, mostly a cheap filler oil. High lard soaps are creamier and silkier. Adding buttermilk, oatmeal, beer etc... go a long way towards making a palm soap feel richer. PKO and CO are pretty equivalent for the majority of people but there are some who prefer one to the other or a mix of the 2. I've used both with no preference. I like adding butters to the soaps but they need a longer cure to really feel the difference the butters bring.

Technically, soap is a salt. You mix a mild acid (oil) with a strong base (NaOH) and make a salt and water. The palm kernel fatty acid listed may be some residual free fatty acids or more likely they added lauric or myristic acid (which are usually derived from coconut or palm kernel) to increase the bubbles. Listing palm kernel fatty acid sounds more natural than lauric acid.

If you don't like your soaps as much as the store bought ones, you just need to play some more. Most of us soap for our local water and figure out what to add to make them feel just right. I made a number of recipes that I gave to my neighbors to try expecting that there will be a preferred recipe. Not a chance. We're all different.

Ignore the write up on the site. A lot of it is silly like the need to refrigerate soap if they didn't add the EDTA to it. On what planet? Justifications, justifications.....
 
I can't use lard because it makes me itch like crazy so I'm stuck with palm, mostly a cheap filler oil.

You haven't tried tallow?

Big sigh.

My favorite soap is...uh....okay, deep breath....my favorite soap is.....(don't hate me)....store bought.

:headbanging:

http://www.australiansoap.com/pages.php?pageid=92

I'm going to attempt to copy it but wondering:

comparing profiles of lard and palm - I bet they're different enough to impact the results - other opinions?

They only use pko. In terms of measuring bubble - does 10% pko make the equivalent of 10% co? I've only used PKO flakes not PKO. Using 10% of the flakes would make more of a difference when compared to coconut oil vs regular PKO and coconut oil

Their ingredient lists palm kernel fatty acid. Curious. What are they trying to say there? Isn't that just saponified pko? This only stumps me because there are multiple fatty acids in PKO.

And salt is listed as a natural product of saponification, but they don't mean sodium chloride, right? They do mean the table salt. NaCl can harden a soap pretty well.

Does the triple milling process affect the qualities of the soap - like the softness of the lather, slip, etc? As others have said, yes

Not a lot of large bubbles - maybe even less than 10% pko, more creamy with a milky layer as well. Sleek feel to the bar, soft lather. Personally, I like a balance of the two but as long as I see 25% big bubbles with creamy lather, I'm good.:mrgreen:
 
Full disclosure.

I prefer handmade soap for my body, but for my face...:silent:

My favorites are a couple of ridiculously expensive syndets. I thought about trying to reverse engineer them using swiftycraftymonkey, but decided that the learning curve wasn't cost-effective, given that I only use them on my face.
 
Below are extracts from their web pages (the wholesale page, FAQ page and their blog link). All text in italics is theirs, the bold underlining is my emphasis.

The first post on their blog, dated November 19 2015, states:

This triple milling process creates the highest quality soap available and offers many benefits compared to regular soap. Australian Natural Soap is dedicated to using only natural, 100% plant-based ingredients and offers a wide array of appealing scents for even the most sensitive skin.

And this from their wholesale FAQ page:

Does your soap contain lye?
Sodium Hydroxide also known as Caustic Soda or Lye.
Sodium Hydroxide is an essential ingredient in the saponification process. Sodium hydroxide and plant oils are combined together where they react to produce soap. Saponification is completed when all the sodium hydroxide and plant oils have been converted into soap and glycerine. At the final stage of saponification there is no remaining sodium hydroxide in the soap base. Hence, no there is no sodium hydroxide in our soap bars.


And this from their wholesale INGREDIENTS page:

PALM OIL

Sodium palmate (extracted from the flesh of the palm fruit) is used as a base ingredient in our soaps. Our palm oil comes from plantations in South East Asia that have been certified as sustainable by the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil. (www.RSPo_Org) Every batch of soap noodles has a unique RSPO trace number which links it to the specific palm plantation that the oil was sourced from.


I believe their emphasis on French Milling is for a very good reason.

Having said all that, I’m not knocking the soap itself – I know there’s a few people here in Australia that sell it at markets and I personally know people that deliberately look out for it. The first time I saw it, was a long time ago in cardboard boxes in a cleaning supply shop for about a $1 a bar. I wondered then how they could supply at that price. I can still find them today, if I look hard enough, for under $3 a bar (and that’s Australian dollars).
 
Yeah their website info is questionable, certainly creative at best.

Did anyone notice that there was no soft oil listed on their website??? A soap made with only palm, pko, and shea butter???

Soapmaker 145: I haven't taken the time to become familiar with French milling - are you sure glycerin is always removed?

This soap shows no signs of having its glycerin removed. There is no harshness whatsoever, and it might be even more gentle than mine. It's at least equal. If I didn't know better - I'd say it was moisturizing! (ducking any oncoming stones!!)

I bought a few bars and pretended they were samples to give to friends (Don't worry - I went back to tell the truth), and after using them for a week they were shocked to know they were not handmade. They all really enjoyed them, and will buy them when out of my soap.

Next time you're in your grocery store, see if there is a simple cardboard display of unwrapped 3.5 oz scented soap from Bela Soap, and try one and let me know your opinion.
 
"...The triple milling strips the glycerin which isn't good...."

I have no idea why milling removes glycerin given what I know about milling. The soap needs to be dry and cool enough to mill properly (milling is not the same as rebatching) and I suspect removing glycerin might aid the milling process. But if the glycerin IS removed, it would be done in an entirely separate, earlier step in the soap making process, not during milling.

Mind explaining?
 
Yeah their website info is questionable, certainly creative at best.

Did anyone notice that there was no soft oil listed on their website??? A soap made with only palm, pko, and shea butter???

Soapmaker 145: I haven't taken the time to become familiar with French milling - are you sure glycerin is always removed?

This soap shows no signs of having its glycerin removed. There is no harshness whatsoever, and it might be even more gentle than mine. It's at least equal. If I didn't know better - I'd say it was moisturizing! (ducking any oncoming stones!!)

I bought a few bars and pretended they were samples to give to friends (Don't worry - I went back to tell the truth), and after using them for a week they were shocked to know they were not handmade. They all really enjoyed them, and will buy them when out of my soap.

Next time you're in your grocery store, see if there is a simple cardboard display of unwrapped 3.5 oz scented soap from Bela Soap, and try one and let me know your opinion.

I'll look for the soap for sure. Wholefoods may have them. Don't worry about ducking! No stones coming. My own confession: I still buy L'Occitane soaps and B&B products for an older friend who really loves them. I buy him sets around Christmas time. I've been doing it for ~ 2 decades since before I started making soaps. I also buy him the big bars of milk scented shea soaps. He loves them and he knows they are coming every year. At one point, I was thrilled with them too. This past year, I sent him some of my soaps along with his usual gift for Christmas. I asked him to let me know if he wants more.

IL linked to the same information I have. My understanding is that the the old fashioned Marseille-type milled soaps always have the glycerin removed because they're made with a boiling out process similar to Aleppo soaps and are dried and pressed into very hard bars that last forever. I'm not sure at what point they started using Palm instead of olive. The traditional soaps are made with olive oil which is considered gentler on the skin while being "more cleansing" than other oils. I found a guest soap sampler from L'Occitane that is at least 10 years old. It has many scents that we don't normally see in their stores like F&M and patchouli. The tiny soaps still look and smell like they were just made. It makes me wonder how much having excess water/glycerin contribute to FOs morphing in cp soaps.

Arimara, I'm using some tallow now and alternating with palm. I can almost get away with about 30% tallow except in hot and humid summer months. By the time I get to 40% tallow, I start itching. Palm doesn't bother me at all. I haven't tried mixing palm with animal fats yet but I have some planned. I'm determined to find a way to use oils that are by products of the food industry. I'm the only one in my group that is having this problem with animal fat.
 
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