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Soap Making Forum > The Soap Making & Craft Forum > Liquid Soap and Cream Soap Forum > Glycerin LS recipe and method check - citric acid or sugar with glycerin?
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Old 02-14-2016, 09:11 PM   #1
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Default Glycerin LS recipe and method check - citric acid or sugar with glycerin?

I have a simple 100% coconut oil / 0% SF soap that I use for dishes, with citric acid and unscented easy peasy. I just ran out of paste, and I want to try it with glycerin now to make a thicker soap. I've read the tutorials till Im crosseyed and I need better minds than mine to help.
________________________________________________
Original recipe:
729 g water mixed with 8.5 g citric acid & 1.75 TBS sugar
(without citric acid Id use 243 g KOH (90% pure), with CA use 250 g KOH)
add 250 g KOH - dissolve

850 g coconut oil melted

Mix hot, stickblend to taffy, cook to no zap, portion out, dilute some and bag some for use later.
________________________________________________

I would like to substitute the water used to make the paste with glycerin

Questions:
1) Im not seeing a 90% KOH purity option on the summerbee meadow calc, so this was figured with various calculators and excel - but do the numbers look vaguely right?
2) If I want to change this to a full glycerin recipe, shall I just use 750 g glycerin (3X the weight of the KOH)
3) can I dissolve 8.5 g citric acid in the glycerin before the lye just like in water?
4) can I (should I) add the 1.75 TBSP sugar to the glycerin before the lye as well?
5) I do not have a stove top safe stainless steel pot for heating the glycerin to dissolve the KOH - can I use my crockpot on high?
6) should I add sodium lactate to the paste recipe or dilution water? If yes, why?

Bonus question - Ive recently acquired some SLSa and cocoamidopropyl betaine for future projects. Can I (should I) add a bit for even more bubbles? My whole purpose behind making liquid dish soap is that hubby HATES scented dish soap, and I don't need to slather on moisturizer after using it.

For this new recipe I would follow Irish Lass's "whisk hot KOH solution into oils off heat for 10 minutes until you see bubbles, or not. Leave 4-6 hours off of heat until its paste" method.


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Old 02-14-2016, 09:44 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seawolfe View Post
I have a simple 100% coconut oil / 0% SF soap that I use for dishes, with citric acid and unscented easy peasy. I just ran out of paste, and I want to try it with glycerin now to make a thicker soap. I've read the tutorials till Im crosseyed and I need better minds than mine to help.
________________________________________________
Original recipe:
729 g water mixed with 8.5 g citric acid & 1.75 TBS sugar
(without citric acid Id use 243 g KOH (90% pure), with CA use 250 g KOH)
add 250 g KOH - dissolve

850 g coconut oil melted

Mix hot, stickblend to taffy, cook to no zap, portion out, dilute some and bag some for use later.
________________________________________________

I would like to substitute the water used to make the paste with glycerin

Questions:
1) Im not seeing a 90% KOH purity option on the summerbee meadow calc, so this was figured with various calculators and excel - but do the numbers look vaguely right?
SBM assumed a 94% purity of KOH (which IIRC is consistent with the purity of ED KOH), so if you entered the numbers correctly, this should be correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seawolfe View Post
2) If I want to change this to a full glycerin recipe, shall I just use 750 g glycerin (3X the weight of the KOH)
Yes, just substitute glycerin for all the water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seawolfe View Post
3) can I dissolve 8.5 g citric acid in the glycerin before the lye just like in water?
I would probably dissolve it in it's own weight (or a bit more) hot water, then add that to the oils. You aren't talking about much extra liquid here, it will not affect trace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seawolfe View Post
4) can I (should I) add the 1.75 TBSP sugar to the glycerin before the lye as well?
I would probably add this to hot water also. Just subtract one oz of glycerin to account for the water, then use that oz to mix the sugar and citric acid. Hot will make it dissolve faster.

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Originally Posted by Seawolfe View Post
5) I do not have a stove top safe stainless steel pot for heating the glycerin to dissolve the KOH - can I use my crockpot on high?
Your crock pot will not get hot enough to bring the glycerin/KOH mixture to a boil. You may want to switch to mixing the KOH with it's own weight in water, then adding the remainder of the liquid in glycerin. It really does not affect my thickness that much. Then again, SS pots are available at my local thrift store for cheap. Bring a magnet and be sure it sticks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seawolfe View Post
6) should I add sodium lactate to the paste recipe or dilution water? If yes, why?
I add mine to the pot right before dilution to make the paste easier to work with. You can also mix it into the paste.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seawolfe View Post
Bonus question - Ive recently acquired some SLSa and cocoamidopropyl betaine for future projects. Can I (should I) add a bit for even more bubbles?
I have never used SLSa, so I am no help there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seawolfe View Post
My whole purpose behind making liquid dish soap is that hubby HATES scented dish soap, and I don't need to slather on moisturizer after using it.
You are still going to have to either use gloves or moisturizer, I'm afraid. This soap will still be drying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seawolfe View Post
For this new recipe I would follow Irish Lass's "whisk hot KOH solution into oils off heat for 10 minutes until you see bubbles, or not. Leave 4-6 hours off of heat until its paste" method.
This is my new favorite method. Only thing I change is mixing the KOH with H2O first, then adding the glycerin.


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Old 02-14-2016, 10:07 PM   #3
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Thanks Susie! I'll look for ss pots. I do have some enamelware, but it's old and scratched. The rest is aluminum, cast iron, or the "don't you DARE use the nice stainless steel pot for soap making" pots.
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Old 02-14-2016, 10:44 PM   #4
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Ditto all that Susie said.

Special mention for #6: I add my SL to my dilution water. It helps dissolve the paste much quicker. The difference between using SL and not using SL to dissolve paste is quite remarkable. Once I saw what it did to my paste in my early days of making GLS, I swore to never dilute my paste without it ever again.

For what it's worth, I have to use gloves when I wash my dishes with my 100% CO GLS with a 0% superfat, otherwise my hands protest. It does a really good bubbly job of cleaning, though!

Oh- one more mention: This is in regards to the dilution rate with 100% coconut oil GLS... Go very easy on the dilution water to start. It doesn't take much water to dilute it to a good thickness. I would start with 1 part paste and about 1/4th part water, and then go from there.


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Old 02-14-2016, 11:35 PM   #5
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Thanks IL! I feel better with the advice of the LS queens

While my 100% CO 0% SF dish soap isn't what you call gentle, it doesn't dry me out like commercial dish soap, and I don't need to run for the moisturizer every time I use it.
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Old 02-15-2016, 02:44 AM   #6
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OK! So I remembered the old SS pot that we only use for popcorn, and dove bravely in. Thanks for the idea to dissolve the CA and sugar in the hot water - worked a treat!

When I realized that I was dealing with basically boiling hot lava (boiling glycerin and KOH), I improvised a bit and poured the melted CO into the pot containing the lava (so oils into lye water instead of lye water into oils). That didn't seem to hurt anything. Oh and I realized that whisking isn't for me when I couldn't refrain from splashing hot lava about. So I stickblended a bit and stirred a lot until I saw some bubbles on the surface and saw stuff start gelling up on the cooler sides. Put a lid on it, and it's in the cold oven so it can sit till tomorrow. The pot is still super hot so theres definitely an exothermic reaction going on in there!

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Old 02-15-2016, 03:18 AM   #7
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Just out of curiosity, what is the citric acid for?
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Old 02-15-2016, 04:45 AM   #8
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Just out of curiosity, what is the citric acid for?
My water is hard. Citric Acid + Lye (NaOH or KOH) makes sodium or potassium citrate, which helps lather and reduces soap scum.
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Old 02-15-2016, 03:56 PM   #9
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"...Oh and I realized that whisking isn't for me when I couldn't refrain from splashing hot lava about...."

Ahhhh.... You didn't stir clockwise with fresh stick of white wood in the full moon. That was the problem.

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Old 02-15-2016, 04:18 PM   #10
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LOL, DeeAnna!

Whisking is not my thing, either. I am just too uncoordinated to not wear the stuff. So I SB a bit. I finally saw flying bubbles on the last batch, but the rest of the procedure is just like IL described.


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