Help! I used KOH instead of NaOH accidentally. Rebatch as liquid soap?

Soapmaking Forum

Help Support Soapmaking Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

lunablue

Active Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2017
Messages
42
Reaction score
19
Location
California coast
Hello! I just joined the forum and am looking for some help. I accidentally used Potassium Hydroxide instead of Sodium Hydroxide to make 6 pounds (!) of soap. Needless to say, I have a gloppy mess on my hands. I wanted to see if I could salvage it and make liquid soap out of it, but haven't found anything on line that tells me how to do that. Anyone? Any help would be much appreciated!
 
Yes! Thank you.

Total oil weight: 100 oz.
Water as percent of oil weight 38.00%
Super Fat/Discount: 5%
Lye Concentration 27.119%
Water : Lye Ratio: 2.6874 : 1
Sat : Unsat Ratio 50 : 50
Iodine: 49
INS: 162
Fragrance Ratio: 0.5
Fragrance Weight 3.13 oz.

I used olive oil at 30%, coconut oil, 76 degree at 30%, cocoa butter at 20%, shea butter at 15%, and castor oil at 5% for a total of 100 oz.
 
Put your recipe through lye calculator as a liquid soap, with KOH. Make sure SF is correct and everything else like water ratio etc
Try and figure out the amount of KOH you're short or have too much of.
That might give you an idea if it's salvageable ir not.
I'm on my phone which doesn't really support Soapcalc so I can't work it out for you.
 
OK, my first suggestion is that you use Soapee.com. Then enter everything you used into the calculator, but change the superfat to 3%. That will give you an higher amount of KOH, simply subtract what you added from that amount to know how much more to add. Add that to twice its weight in water. You can go less, but having extra water will help it mix. Then I would break up the paste into quarter (ish) sized blobs, and use some stirring and low heat to get that KOH/water mixed in. This may take some time.

Then I would take out 1/2 lb of paste to dilute before fooling with the rest. Use half the amount of water as paste and break that paste up again. Then, once you see that that is not going to be enough, add half that amount again. Continue "sneaking up" on the water until you end up with 1-2 small blobs. They will melt out with time. If you see a skin on top, you need to add more water, as your paste has reformed due to excess water loss. WRITE DOWN EVERY AMOUNT OF WATER! This is how you will know what they rest is going to need.

Your soap is going to be cloudy. Embrace that fact. The butters are going to inevitably lead to cloudiness. There is nothing wrong with cloudy liquid soap. Judgy people can go make their own soap.
 
Last edited:
Yes- you can make liquid soap out of it. All you need to do is dilute it with distilled water, but the trick will be in finding out the best dilution rate/water amount to your liking (i.e. how thick or thin you'd like the end product to be).

Susie brings up a good point: since you have butters in your formula, your liquid soap will not turn out as clear as you might like, but it will still be good liquid soap. One of my liquid soap formulas contains butters and it's quite nice (although opaque).

Since there is no 1 dilution rate that fits all formulas (or people) across the board, you'll need to do a little bit of experimentation, starting out with just a small portion of your 'glop'- which in liquid-soap parlance is referred to as 'paste'- and dilute it with distilled water.

When I'm trying to find out the best dilution rate for a formula, I experiment with just 4 oz. amounts of paste (by weight), and half that amount in distilled water by weight. You basically want to start small with the water and sneak up to your final dilution rate. If you start out with too much dilution water, it takes a bit of extra fuss to correct it (although it can be done).

Just a heads-up: trying to figure out the right dilution rate for a formula is the most time-consuming and frustrating part of making liquid soap, but once you've figured it out, it thankfully never needs to be done again if you were diligent about taking notes/keeping track of how much water you added. It's not unusual to spend a few days or even up to a week to figure out the dilution rate for a formula, but most of it is just a hands-off waiting game. Don't worry- once you have your rate down, it won't take anywhere near as long to make your liquid soap, I promise! :)

There are a couple of different ways to dilute: the added-heat method and the no-heat method. I kinda use a combo of the two. I start out with heat, but then finish without heat:

I place the paste in a wide-mouth canning jar of appropriate size (breaking the paste up into up into smaller chunks first), then in a small pot I heat the water to boiling, and then I pour it right over the paste and tightly cover the jar with its lid.

Next, I set the jar in a pot of gently boiling water to heat for a bit. This helps to soften the paste to a jelly-like texture that can easily be stick-blended. I check on things about every 10 to 15 minutes or so by opening the jar and poking at the paste with a skewer to see how soft it is. Once it has become soft as jelly, I stick-blend it, then squeegee the excess soap back into the jar, put the cover back on and place the jar back into the pot, turn the heat off and leave it alone.

If all goes well, you will see it clarify from the bottom up over the next few hours and turn into liquid soap with a large foamy head on it. All is not done yet, though. I need to see how much of that foamy head will dissolve before deciding to add more water or not, so I let it sit on my counter overnight (from here on out I don't use any heat or the stick-blender).

Depending on the formula, much may dissolve, or very little, but I wait until things seem to be at a standstill before deciding to add any extra water to it. If I do add water, I add only a teaspoon at a time (I weigh it first before adding and make sure to jot the amount down in my notes). Then I agitate it/shake the jar......and hunker down and play the waiting game to see how much more dissolves.

When things look to be at a standstill again, I add more water, but depending on how much foam or blobs of paste are still left, I may decide to add less water than a teaspoon. You just have to use your judgment.

Anyway, I keep repeating the above until there's just barely a thin cobwebby wisp of foam on top (about 1/32" or so) before calling it done. If I didn't mind a thinner soap, I could keep going until every last bit dissolves, but I like mine on the thicker side, so I stop even if there is still a thin wisp of foam on top.

I check my notes and tally up the total weight of water I used per my 4 oz paste, and I use that ratio every time I dilute paste made from that particular formula.


Edited to add- looks like Susie added more to her post just as I was just finishing up mine! :lol:


IrishLass :)
 
Thank you!

All of this is so helpful. I've only been making CP since earlier this year and I was so frustrated and mad at myself for making such a stupid mistake. One that I'll never make again. I've never made liquid soap, but now's my chance to dive in. I had added calendula flower petals and lavender to the top and I've done my best to scrape those off the mess. So there's a little less soap, but not much. Plus it may be a bit 'chunky' for any bits I missed.

I'll let you know if I have questions as I start in. Thank you all so much!! I appreciate it. I'm looking forward to being here on this forum. Lots of great stuff! Thanks again!
 
Total oil weight: 100 oz.
Water as percent of oil weight 38.00%
Super Fat/Discount: 5%
Lye Concentration 27.119%
Water : Lye Ratio: 2.6874 : 1

100 oz batch formulated with NaOH:
Water as percent of oil weight 38%
Super Fat/Discount: 5%
Lye Concentration 27.1% (rounded)
Water : Lye Ratio: 2.7 (rounded)

100 oz batch calls for
38 oz water
13.1 oz NaOH ... but you used KOH, so...

The same 100 oz batch formulated with KOH to make LS:

Water as percent of oil weight 62.6 %
Super Fat/Discount 0 % (recommended for oils high in unsaponifiables)
Lye Concentration 25 %
Water : Lye Ratio 3:1 (default setting for liquid soap batches)

This 100 oz batch calls for
62.6 oz water
20.1 oz KOH

So, to turn this batch into Liquid Soap paste, calculate the difference between what you have and what you need:

62.6 oz minus 38 oz = 24.6 oz more water
20.1 oz minus 13.1 oz = 7 oz more KOH

If t'were me, I would oven process the batch:
Dump the soap into a large stainless steel pot.
Put in a preheated 250°F oven.
Make the KOH solution.
Ideally, warm the soap to 160°F (1/2 hour in the oven ?)
Add the KOH solution when it cools to 140°F

If the temps don't synchronize, just pour the lye into the batch when it is warm enough to give it a good stir. Mix thoroughly for one full minute. Turn the oven temp down to as low as it will go (170°F for my oven) and let it do its thing, checking on it every 15-20 minutes or so. Cook until it's done -- maybe 3-4 hours. ??? Turn the oven off and let it rest overnight. The next morning you should have a beautiful amber colored batch that resembles vaseline.

HTH :bunny:

ETA: DILUTION: For this soap I would use a 40:60 paste to water amount by weight. Example: If paste weighs 137 oz (40%) add 205 oz. boiling water (60%) = 342 oz. Total.

I prefer doing this range top. Bring the batch almost to boiling, then turn it down to medium or medium low and cover lightly. Don't allow the soap to bubble. The object is not to COOK the soap but rather to get the soap to absorb all the water. This may take 3-4 hours. Check every 1/2 hour or so to break up chunks. If a film forms on the top, then you need to add a bit more water, bit by bit, and stir gently to reincorporate. Turn off and allow to cool. Sequester 2 weeks. At the end of the Sequester period you may find some sediment on the bottom or white stuff on top. Save that discussion for another time.
 
Last edited:
Okay, oven processing sounds like an easy method! Thank you for all the info, Zany! I think this sounds like something I should try. Excellent! :)

You are all so helpful. I really appreciate your input!
 
I've done the first part of this, but it's been in the oven for many hours. It's soft enough to stir pretty easily. It hardened up at one point and then someone turned off the oven for a bit before I realized it, but I turned it back on. It's been softer to stir now. So I'll turn off the oven and let it sit in there, and it will turn amber overnight?

I'll give it a go. Thank you!
 
Last edited:
So no luck last night. I've been heating it on the stovetop for almost 3 hours this evening. Still like mashed potatoes consistency. Weird. A little firmer when it cools, but still nothing like amber paste.
 
I did the oven method yesterday/last night. It was in the 170 oven for several hours. Never got beyond the mashed potatoes phase. I'd stir every 30 or more minutes. I finally turned it off and went to bed. I didn't cover it, though. It sat in the oven and looked no different this morning. I've been stovetop cooking it this evening. It's been 3 hours so far. Still the same consistency... mashed potatoes. And all of this was after adding the extra KOH and water.

I appreciate the fact that you'd be over if you lived across the street. :) Thanks for your help.
 
Are you looking for a specific color to call your paste done? If you post a pic we can help figure out if you are at the right spot.

For what it's worth, I don't think you're going to get an amber color from the oils you used. If you can tell from my pic, the recipe I used turned out just barely opaque and the texture is extremely soft. There is no pretty amber color at all. At 3 hours and mashed potatoes, I would zap test it before deciding to cook longer. If it's zap free you're good to go

IMG_0473.jpg
 
Okay, that helps. At this point I would stop adding any heat. Put the lid on it and leave it alone to do its thing. I hope you're the patient type cuz at this point you need to play the "Wait-and-See" game. Meaning, the LS will saponify all on its own, just as it does with CP. Also, read what Susie & Irish say...
Susie brings up a good point: since you have butters in your formula, your liquid soap will not turn out as clear as you might like, but it will still be good liquid soap. One of my liquid soap formulas contains butters and it's quite nice (although opaque).
I'd forgotten about the high % of butters, so this LS won't be the "clear amber vaseline" we're used to seeing. It may take a few days, or even a week or two before this soap is ready for dilution.

To test for readiness, I would normally recommend phenolphthalein drops, but I doubt you have some. The second best choice, would be the soap-in-water test, but as Irish mentioned, high butter soap is opaque and won't clear. So the only option is the zap test. But, with all due respect to Kevin Dunn, don't use the tip of the tongue. That's where the most sensitive taste buds are and you don't want to damage them... better to save them for licking ice cream... LOL Rather, stick a knife in the soap and touch it to the side of your tongue. If it zaps, wait a day and test again. Don't hurry it. Keep testing every day until the soap doesn't zap at all any more and you're good to go.

ETA: Oopsie, I see Battle Gnome was posting at the same time I was typing. Great picture. Good advice.
 
Thanks, BattleGnome. Yeah, I've cooked and cooked this. It's my first attempt at liquid soap since I accidentally used KOH. I was expecting it to get taffy-like, then turn more of a gel, but maybe it won't.
I'll attach a photo I just took of it in the pot. It's still cooking...

FullSizeRender.jpg
 
Okay, I'll turn it off and just wait then. I thought it would happen overnight, so I guess maybe not. I don't mind if it's opaque. I just didn't know when it would be done.

I'll probably transfer it to another container. It's been in my soaping pot for about three days now.

Thanks for all your help, everyone!
 
Yeppers.
icon_thumbup.gif
Looking good, but it's got a ways to go. You can cold process it the rest of the way rather than risk overcooking, drying out, scorching, etc.
 
Okay, thanks! I'll figure this out eventually. It's been a week! I'm trying to figure out lotion problems at the same time. :???:

Cheers!
 

Latest posts

Back
Top