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navigator9 said:
True, but they won't be repeat customers if the soap isn't good. The book I always recommend for beginners is Anne Watson's Smart Soapmaking. It's doesn't have pictures, just drawings, and she doesn't teach about swirls, layers, etc. , just good basic soapmaking technique. I have no problem with pretty soaps, as long as they're good soap. That has to be a priority. If not, all soapmakers end up with a bad name.
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But if the soap doesn't "grab" their attention - either by looks or scent - then they probably won't be first-time customers.

Everybody who has purchased my soap (I am a hobbiest, not a serious seller, but I make soaps to sell for charity) has bought it b/c of scent or looks. Most of them had never tried soap they didn't buy at the grocery store or B&BW before.
 
You start with people network and plain soaps nicely packed sells good. I rather get mild, nice soap than fancy one which could irritate my skin with powdered colors. I think most people will look how is pack and the nice smell.
Fancy soaps are kind of difficult to use in shower with that uneven top. I got few and I was using it, for some time.
 
I don't think that anyone is suggesting that people shouldn't use swirls and so on, but that the primary thing to get sorted first is a good soap making technique and recipe - where many new soapers fall down is wanted to make a superswirly soap that smells like a rose, using 10 oils with 5 of them being less than 5% - then they wonder why it doesn't work out as they planned.
 
The Efficacious Gentleman said:
I don't think that anyone is suggesting that people shouldn't use swirls and so on, but that the primary thing to get sorted first is a good soap making technique and recipe - where many new soapers fall down is wanted to make a superswirly soap that smells like a rose, using 10 oils with 5 of them being less than 5% - then they wonder why it doesn't work out as they planned.
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I am an avid youtube watcher for soaps.

There is one seller on there who does a ton of videos, and it is always nice to watch someone else's style.

But her recipe... wow. I am not sure what her base oils are, but she uses goat milk, tussah silk, oatmeal, kaolin clay, and cream in EVERY batch. I think that is a little overkill, but I have also been reading about soap since I got the idea to make my own in early December 2014. I guess I was lucky this forum was an early discovery (I read for a month before joining).

But if her videos were what I found first, I would have been amazed about all the stuff in the soap, how easy she makes it look and might have jumped right into the deepest part upstream from the Niagra Falls. LOL.

But still people do need to try and do a little research before joining a forum and posting a 1 sentence question.
 
dixiedragon said:
But if the soap doesn't "grab" their attention - either by looks or scent - then they probably won't be first-time customers.

Everybody who has purchased my soap (I am a hobbiest, not a serious seller, but I make soaps to sell for charity) has bought it b/c of scent or looks. Most of them had never tried soap they didn't buy at the grocery store or B&BW before.
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This is true, but this is why you learn to make good soap first - so when they buy for your scent they will come back for the soap! If you have a great scent and a drying soap no one will come back. Learn to make the soap first - then you can mess with fragrance and color. Added benefit : when that fragrance you wanted rices your soap batter, you won't wonder if anything is wrong with your recipe, or your lye. etc. You will realize that it is the fragrance since your recipe is already perfected and you can reproduce the results of a good plain (unscented, uncolored ) soap.
 
The Efficacious Gentleman said:
I don't think that anyone is suggesting that people shouldn't use swirls and so on, but that the primary thing to get sorted first is a good soap making technique and recipe - where many new soapers fall down is wanted to make a superswirly soap that smells like a rose, using 10 oils with 5 of them being less than 5% - then they wonder why it doesn't work out as they planned.
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Exactly! If it's not good soap first, then it doesn't matter how pretty it is! I don't think any of us go through the trouble of making soap just to look at it. If it's really pretty, we may let it sit in our soap dish for a while to admire it, but at some point, it's going to be used. And if it doesn't make your skin feel wonderful, who cares how pretty it was. By all means, make pretty soap, but just make sure it's really good, pretty soap.
 
I am a new soaper. I read more books and watched so many videos, my eyes crossed. Aside from being a new soaper, I'm also new to computers. My children grew up with them, but I had a thing for books. I know many of my questions were silly to others, but I always subscribe to there's no such thing as a silly question. I've used the search bar endlessly, but many threads don't address my particular question. I struggled for months trying to get a picture uploaded' and finally had success. In fact, most of my successes are because of the help and patience of the people on this forum. Thank you to everyone here who has been part of my learning curve. I only hope to pass it along some day. As to selling. I personally would feel terrible if my soaped harmed anyone. I don't want anyone but me trying my soap ( not even my family ) until I have used it and deemed it safe. Most people don't realize the intricacies of CP soapmaking. We can educate them and hope they do the right thing. Maybe a stickie on the topic that can be referred to? Suggest MP for selling until their CP skills are consistently safe over time. Thanks again for helping this newbie out!
 
I totally agree that learning how to make good soap is important. I'm just saying it doesn't bother me when people want to jump in to fancy stuff b/c it looks so pretty. It's just human nature. I think it's very common for people to discover something that they really like and jump in with both feet. Learning the basics sounds boring. So then what happens is the first attempt is a flop, THEN they go back and learn the basics.
 
I've tried to avoid this for a long, long time, but I have a confession. I will never be comfortable telling someone not to sell because they don't have enough experience because that would make me a hypocrite.. I was one of them, as some of you probably know. I honestly can't say I'm proud of it and I really wish I'd waited longer than I did before I started selling my CP/HP soaps. I was one of those looking to "get rich quick," but I didn't want to get rich. Money was tight, I couldn't find a job, I had two kids.. I felt helpless and I wanted to do something to help support my family.

I opened an Etsy shop before I even joined this forum, but luckily it was only for melt and pour. I read all the responses from members here to not sell your first soaps, but I didn't figure that applied to me with melt and pour. I didn't figure I could really cause any problems since I wasn't making anything, just adding fragrance and color. I sold only melt and pour for several months. During this time, I had become intrigued with making my own soap. All the beautiful pictures of CP members posted had me wanting to give it a try.

So I researched. I spent hours and hours reading through the forum. I spent days playing with SoapCalc and looking at different oils. I searched everything I could think of on Google. I read every single article on the first 10 pages. I took everything I found and ran it through my BS detector and compared what was left to what I found on the forum. I asked questions here and I learned from the answers I received.

I am proud to say, however, that I've never made someone else's recipe. I'd look at the recipes here and on the internet for ideas, then I'd tweak them to suit my needs and what I had on hand. I have never asked for recipes, only advice on something I came up with. I wanted my recipes to be mine.

I understand newbie reactions to being told not to sell or being talked about on the forum. I have been the subject of several conversations. Most have not been very nice. At first, I was royally p*ssed that members were talking about me behind my back. There have been many times that I've typed up a response and walked away for a few hours to clear my thoughts. When I came back to the thread, I realized that I should let it go because I opened myself up to these kinds of posts when I started selling so early - less than 6 months after making my first CP/HP batches. Sometime you just have to tuck your tail, take your punishment, and learn from it. I've been run off from the forum a couple of times, but I've always come back because there is a wealth of knowledge here if you know how to look for it and are willing to learn. The people here are amazing.

With all that being said, I do not condone selling early. As I said, I wish I had waited. The one year rule is a good guide line and I think most new soap makers should follow it. Some may be ready to sell earlier, some may not be. I learned from my mistakes and maybe someone reading this will too.
 
Hmlove1218...you are a perfect example for everyone to remember never to judge. People looking to earn money to support themselves honestly, don't mean anyone harm. I agree, waiting to sell CP is prudent, and benefits the maker and the community as a whole. That being said, all anyone can do is make recommendations in a non judgmental way, and educate people along the way. That includes often taking a breath and answering what might be a silly or basic question.
 
Good thread with many good points made by all! :)

Since many brought up the subject of our search feature, I just wanted to let y'all know there are 3 different ways to search on the forum, in case some of you didn't know about all 3 of them:

1) The 'Search This Forum' icon on the upper right on the page, which is pretty basic and the least useful of the three.

2) The "Advanced Search' icon that appears in the bottom of the dropdown box when you click on the 'Search This Forum' icon. This allows one to narrow down their search parameters better than feature #1.

3) The 'SiteComber site that's posted in the forum Sticky entitled, 'How To Search On SoapMakingForum Like A Pro': http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=34889, which works wonderfully!


Also, since this was brought up several times- here is our long-cherished Stickie that helps hobby soap-makers to be able to better discern whether or not they are ready to sell yet: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=16002

and also this excellent sticky that's along the same lines:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=33144


And here's a link to our Acronym and Definitions thread that will help to answer many basic questions:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=51841 By the way, this particular Stickie is a continual work in progress. If any of y'all think that something should be included, please let one of us mods or admins know via PM. :)

I just want to say that I love this forum. I think we have a great group of very intelligent lovers of the craft here who 8 times out of 10 go out of their way to be helpful and kind to all (I would say 9 or 10 times out of 10, but none of us is perfect, and we all have our bad days after all :wink:). But you all need to take a bow.... I'm a member of a goodly handful of different forums, and I can only name 2 that are so helpful in such a kind way, and this is one of them.

Speaking only for myself, I love to help out those who are new to the craft and don't mind answering questions. Like Susie, I'm so tickled when I've been able to truly help someone out.

Questions are good and I feel no one should ever be afraid of asking them. The only times I get frustrated with questions are when I feel like I'm being 'used' or 'milked' for info, if you know what I mean. For example, such as when a self-described newcomer to the craft with admittedly only a batch or two of experience under their belt starts selling those first batches soap online against all of everyone's collective advice to take things slow, and then they come back onto the forum to ask very basic questions about things which should have already become common knowlege/second-nature long before even attempting to sell. Thankfully, though, those times are rare, but it does happen (more so, the past few months, it seems), and like several others have mentioned, to answer any further questions from them makes me feel like I'm enabling what I think is a very bad decision on their part that may adversely affect the homemade soap community as a whole, so I'll usually refrain from answering them further (unless, as the good Gent pointed out, that they are about to do something very dangerous).


IrishLass :)
 
hmlove1218 said:
I've tried to avoid this for a long, long time, but I have a confession. I will never be comfortable telling someone not to sell because they don't have enough experience because that would make me a hypocrite.. I was one of them, as some of you probably know. I honestly can't say I'm proud of it and I really wish I'd waited longer than I did before I started selling my CP/HP soaps. I was one of those looking to "get rich quick," but I didn't want to get rich. Money was tight, I couldn't find a job, I had two kids.. I felt helpless and I wanted to do something to help support my family.

I opened an Etsy shop before I even joined this forum, but luckily it was only for melt and pour. I read all the responses from members here to not sell your first soaps, but I didn't figure that applied to me with melt and pour. I didn't figure I could really cause any problems since I wasn't making anything, just adding fragrance and color. I sold only melt and pour for several months. During this time, I had become intrigued with making my own soap. All the beautiful pictures of CP members posted had me wanting to give it a try.

So I researched. I spent hours and hours reading through the forum. I spent days playing with SoapCalc and looking at different oils. I searched everything I could think of on Google. I read every single article on the first 10 pages. I took everything I found and ran it through my BS detector and compared what was left to what I found on the forum. I asked questions here and I learned from the answers I received.

I am proud to say, however, that I've never made someone else's recipe. I'd look at the recipes here and on the internet for ideas, then I'd tweak them to suit my needs and what I had on hand. I have never asked for recipes, only advice on something I came up with. I wanted my recipes to be mine.

I understand newbie reactions to being told not to sell or being talked about on the forum. I have been the subject of several conversations. Most have not been very nice. At first, I was royally p*ssed that members were talking about me behind my back. There have been many times that I've typed up a response and walked away for a few hours to clear my thoughts. When I came back to the thread, I realized that I should let it go because I opened myself up to these kinds of posts when I started selling so early - less than 6 months after making my first CP/HP batches. Sometime you just have to tuck your tail, take your punishment, and learn from it. I've been run off from the forum a couple of times, but I've always come back because there is a wealth of knowledge here if you know how to look for it and are willing to learn. The people here are amazing.

With all that being said, I do not condone selling early. As I said, I wish I had waited. The one year rule is a good guide line and I think most new soap makers should follow it. Some may be ready to sell earlier, some may not be. I learned from my mistakes and maybe someone reading this will too.
Click to expand...

Very well said. I also sold soaps within 6 months, and was never a member of a forum when I started. I also started because income was imperative at the time. Did not get rich but it certainly helped. I ran a lot of batches in the 6 months until I was reasonably happy with them and went to market a bit to early. I actually still have some of my first customers. Almost 6 yrs later I can see where my soaps could have been improved and have been improved but I actually still have and use a couple of the recipes I came up with, all on my own with no help. I had a tutorial from B&B, learned to use soap calc and started making soap. My first batch was 100% lard and I still have one bar left. I am not an advocate of early selling and have taken note to comments that my soap has gone from being great soap to awesome, so I assume over the years I have learned something. In my case it was an outlet to save my sanity, after losing our company and a large portion of retirement, and helping with a little added income. I also still sell in the same market as my first day of selling and have outlasted many many soapmakers. We have a newbie that makes beautiful colored soaps but even mild facial bars are the same recipe. A fantastic 2 oil soap, Olive and Coconut. Yep, I know some do like that combination, but a luxury moisturizing facial bar....not in my book of recipes.
 
I get asking questions without looking extensively for your own answers first- I'm not sure I've gotten good results from search here yet! It's gotten to the point that if I need help figuring something out, and I can not find the answer after searching SwiftCraftMonkey, I ask immediately here. I know searching here will yield no results, and I don't trust most other resources.

You have all been so unbelievably helpful- the group of people here have a generosity of spirit that is utterly heartwarming.

As for people selling so soon? I SO see both sides of that! At the end of the day though, people selling too soon aren't likely to last long in the market- especially selling soap, IMO. The profit margins are just too narrow. There's not much money do be made- especially if you can't buy supplies in large quantities. I branched into making soap after starting with body butter. I started my first loaf with the intent to sell (as soon as I got the recipes ironed out and time tested). Nope! I don't think so! I've played around enough and researched enough to see there just is not enough $$ in soap to make it worth my time selling it. Maybe if I had unlimited space to store curing soap.... Or maybe if I were more of a 'planner' and didn't need the ability to pull an old fashioned all nighter to prepare for a show... Maybe if it weren't so flippin' fragile where I envision an enormous amount of shrinkage carting it around show to show... And the biggest one- maybe if I sold more retail and less wholesale.
 
There are people that I respect highly that have successfully sold soap well before that one year mark. However, those people have the right mindset to not accept the first successful recipe and do it over and over, but to continue to improve and refine their way through that learning curve. My hat is off to them! I could never do that. I have had some real doozies well after when I thought I should know better.
 
I'm at just over a year now of making soaps, and little under a year on this forum. I used the very first batch of soap I made for shaving yesterday. Aside from being veg only (sorry but shaving soap needs tallow!) it's still better than any of the commercial soaps available in the US and not far behind some older commercial European veg soaps. Lucky? Undoubtedly there is some luck there. I am an avid researcher however and I knew a good amount of what and why before I started. It was a calculated stab in the dark.

Not bragging, just pointing out that a new person can absolutely make good, even marketable soap their first time.

Since then I learned a lot more. There's "book smarts" and there's wisdom, and wisdom is the experience to apply what you learned. I came here as a shaver and I didn't even know the vernacular. Until you know what you are looking for at least a little bit it is often hard to formulate a question, let alone find the answer to the question someone else asked and was answered. It's rather like expecting to hit the target the first time playing pin the tail on the donkey. But, y'all persevered and I kept at it. Nearly everyone in this thread has helped me in some way directly or indirectly. For that you have my heartfelt thanks. So, a person can have researched without seeming to "know" anything.

I guess I don't know what threads you all are talking about. I don't read everything. If there are people here looking only to commercialize YOUR time, then they need to be taken out back and flogged. I look at this place not only as a place to learn but a place to talk. If a person is not willing to invest here emotionally, to make some "friends", then it's going to be a tough go. If however they come here with an emotional investment in grandma's recipe for face soap made with bacon drippings and measured with a pyrex measuring cup, that does not mean they wont be the next person who really gives back.

So, take that for what it's worth, understanding I don't know exactly who you may be referring to. :)
 
I totally agree with the folks on this forum... y'all have taught me so much, with such generosity of spirit. I really don't get the offense that some folks immediately take when they ask for advice. Geez people, you asked a question, someone took their time to share their knowledge and possibly give additional advice. Show some gratitude or at least avoid being a drama-llama!

I regularly visit other soaping and gamer forums. This one has the most welcoming, supportive group of folks I've seen on the web. I'm tempted to send the drama-llamas over to the gamer forums. They would probably better enjoy the mass umbrage they find there - since that's just what they are looking for.

Sorry for the negativity... I normally try to avoid it but really wanted to vent!

<grumble> people have no manners </grumble>
 
I also have never been met here with anything other than kindness and supportive advice. I think where newbies go wrong is not taking the time to explore the board, do research before they ask question, if they can, and figure out who the really helpful posters are. Ie; don't tell someone who knows what they are talking about and is trying to help you make your soap better that they are "snarky." That is not a good way to proceed if you want to be a member of a community.
 

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