Offered recipes and assistance and got attitude?

I worked as an official at my old league's derby game last night and saw a woman who has been a casual friend for a few years. She had a display of her silver jewelry and M&P soaps that she was selling. I have bought many things from her in the past including some soaps. We were chatting and I said something to the effect of, "If you ever have an interest in making soap from scratch, I have recipes that I will share with you if you like." She said something like "I make this." …to which I replied "Yes, I know. I mean if you ever want to make it from the very beginning with the oils and lye etc…" Then the kicker from her, "I don't want lye in my soap, or sulphates!" (said with a superior tone). I explained that I don't add sulphates either or other unnecessary chemicals. She looked like I insulted her when I explained that her soap was also made with lye, but the lye part was done before she bought it. It was obvious that she didn't know that all soap is made with lye of some type. I just said a polite goodnight and went about my business.
I walked away figuratively shaking my head. I won't offer again. She missed out.

Some people are just lost in the snow storm. You can offer them a shovel, but you can't force them to use it.

It's a shame that some of these myths are out there, and out there with quite a force, but we can just offer and accept that it is what it is.

Wow. Amazing. And she is selling. Scary stuff.

Chefmom said:

Some people are just lost in the snow storm. You can offer them a shovel, but you can't force them to use it.

It's a shame that some of these myths are out there, and out there with quite a force, but we can just offer and accept that it is what it is.

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So true. :Kitten Love:

"I don't want lye in my soap!"

"Well, I don't want to be talking to a lack-wit, but it's the situation we find ourselves in"

Of course, as non-lackwits, we all know there is NO lye in a finished bar of either M&P base or CP soap anyhow....and that actually having lye in one's soap would be a Bad Thing.

There's any number of people who do not wish to USE lye, and therefore stick with M&P, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Let me get this straight...you walked up to her while she was at her place of business(she was selling soap and stuff there), and basically told her that she was not making "real" soap, like potentially in front of buying customers, and you can't figure out why she gave you attitude?

oh jeez, the no lye soap person *big sigh*

unfortunately, some soapers are just .... (please choose: ignorant, dumb, all of the above). here in my country, i have found 2 soapers claiming they sell organic soap, while in reality not one ingredient is even organic. yes, it's true.

Being ignorant or dumb (while a judgement call for the observer) is not yet illegal, however mislabeling organic products probably is (and if you wanted to cause problems, reporting it to the local branch of government responsible for organics certification would likely get that soaper into a conversation with an official. I don't know.).

However. Not wanting to soap using lye - not illegal. Not understanding M&P base production - not illegal either. So, what are we left with? I think at some point we have to accept that other people won't always treasure our information, won't be swayed even by the most logical, or the most scientific explanations, won't want to change their current method of production.

I would personally rather see someone misunderstanding M&P and refusing to take an interest in using lye themselves than misunderstanding CP or the risks involved with using lye directly. Even with fairly informed soapers, it can be difficult to explain the actual risks, vs the myths and legends of the trade.

I think excusing yourself politely from any continued conversation was the right thing to do, and it would be ideal to put aside the entire interaction, chalking it up to "nope, not today" and moving past it swiftly, as there is absolutely nothing to be learned, no situation fraught with hazard for anyone, and no gain in trying to change this person's mind.

I think I would have told her that no soap has lye in it but you can't make soap without lye. Then explained that the base she uses to design soap was created using lye however the lye changes with the oils and becomes soap.

I certainly would have made a distinction between her making soap and what she truly does.... design soap.

Dorymae said:

I think I would have told her that no soap has lye in it but you can't make soap without lye. Then explained that the base she uses to design soap was created using lye however the lye changes with the oils and becomes soap.

I certainly would have made a distinction between her making soap and what she truly does.... design soap.

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She DID explain that...The woman isn't prepared to hear it and is there really a reason for her to be educated at her booth? Nope. She's not doing any real harm, and is making one of the safest errors she could be making (vs say selling her first batch ever of CP that ended up super lye heavy). (And no, don't even start, anyone, with the whole "but *I* have to correct the misinformation with *my* potential clients" because that's filed under "the cost of doing business" and you will ALWAYS have to explain things to people and promote and market your product at your OWN point-of-sale (not that of others).)

And as far as making the distinction, I agree....BUT that distinction should be made in the mind of the observer to ease in walking away when it became obvious that this woman is not interested in making that distinction herself. She IS making soap....M&P soap.

It's one of those MYOB situations.

CanaDawn said:

She DID explain that...The woman isn't prepared to hear it and is there really a reason for her to be educated at her booth? Nope. She's not doing any real harm, and is making one of the safest errors she could be making (vs say selling her first batch ever of CP that ended up super lye heavy). (And no, don't even start, anyone, with the whole "but *I* have to correct the misinformation with *my* potential clients" because that's filed under "the cost of doing business" and you will ALWAYS have to explain things to people and promote and market your product at your OWN point-of-sale (not that of others).)

And as far as making the distinction, I agree....BUT that distinction should be made in the mind of the observer to ease in walking away when it became obvious that this woman is not interested in making that distinction herself. She IS making soap....M&P soap.

It's one of those MYOB situations.

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I respect your opinion on how you would have handled the encounter, however I must disagree that she is making soap - she is not. She is taking soap which has already been made and she is designing it into a beautiful (hopefully) creation. She is not making any soap - especially M&P soap which can be more tricky than regular CP. Making soap requires lye, M&P can be made - but not without lye. Designing M&P soap is what I believe this woman was doing.

Still a MYOB situation in the OP's case. Whether anyone thinks she's making soap or designing with M&P base, it doesn't MATTER, and it's none of anyone's business if she wants to keep doing that or start making CP soaps. She isn't incorrect in that she doesn't use lye, there won't be any actual lye in the finished M&P base, she didn't ASK for any input, and sometimes you just have to walk away from the semantics of an argument-for-the-sake-of-arguing. Honestly, the woman just wanted to sell her products and expressed clearly that she had no interest in CP soap. There's no reason for us to debate how to classify or categorise her product because it doesn't matter.

Whatever she was doing, I hope she got to do it in peace for the rest of the event.

That is your opinion. Personally since the OP knew the vendor and had bought her products in the past I believe she was only offering to help IF she ever wanted to make CP. She didn't badger her or tell her she had to.

My opinion is that OP was trying to be friendly to an acquaintance and was snubbed. As OP said - her loss.

Yup. Offered, refused, and that's about all there is to it. You say you would have tried to give her a lye education she didn't want, and told her she wasn't really making soap. I have little reason to think it would have turned out better with that approach either.

The vendor probably has a slightly different POV on the event and the attitudes involved, as people tend to do. Whether or not it was a snub or just a repeated refusal to engage on the topic of making CP - there's no reason to bring anything else into what happened. Not sure it's a loss when she clearly didn't WANT to make CP.

Maybe I missed the reason the OP posted the event here?

CanaDawn said:

Yup. Offered, refused, and that's about all there is to it. You say you would have tried to give her a lye education she didn't want, and told her she wasn't really making soap. I have little reason to think it would have turned out better with that approach either.

The vendor probably has a slightly different POV on the event and the attitudes involved, as people tend to do. Whether or not it was a snub or just a repeated refusal to engage on the topic of making CP - there's no reason to bring anything else into what happened. Not sure it's a loss when she clearly didn't WANT to make CP.

Maybe I missed the reason the OP posted the event here?

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I'm not sure but maybe this is a sensitive subject for you - or perhaps you had someone give you a hard time at your booth??

I think she posted here because it is what we all do.... come and tell our experiences that have to do with soap.

No, I just think the result wasn't unexpected.

Absurd and unnecessary, such a reaction. I sell M&P and CP soap but would never mislead customers as to what goes into the making of either. You. Can't. Make. Soap. Without. Lye. Lye is not evil and should not be feared. Soap is good; it gets you clean. Now shut up and buy some soap. Jeez louise ...

People don't always take well to unsolicited advice. You. Can. Use. M&P. And. Never. Touch. Lye. I know what you're saying, and I agree. I just don't see why the poor woman needed anything said to her. There's this idea sometimes that M&P is beginner's soap, and you sort of "graduate" to CP or HP or whatever....but a) it's not so and b) given her response to the whole idea, I think her refusal was the best outcome for everyone.

Dorymae said:

That is your opinion. Personally since the OP knew the vendor and had bought her products in the past I believe she was only offering to help IF she ever wanted to make CP. She didn't badger her or tell her she had to.

My opinion is that OP was trying to be friendly to an acquaintance and was snubbed. As OP said - her loss.

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Exactly this ^.

Some of you obviously have the tendency to read more into things than what was posted or what occurred. I never put her or her soaps down in any way. I have bought them from her more than once. I don't just walk up to random vendors and offer them soap recipes, and I certainly didn't tell her that she wasn't making soap. This is someone that I have known casually for a while (as I said in my original post).