Antioxidants in soap

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This doesn't make sense to me.

Lye oxidizes pretty much everything 100%. So why do I constantly read "this ingredient is great because its an antioxidant"? Antioxidants work by utilizing oxygen radicals and other reactive oxygen species (like peroxides) to react with instead of those things reacting with your skin (or other parts of your body) thereby preventing damage to tissue.

When these antioxidants become fully oxidized, they are useless as far as "antioxidant" power goes. Same with vitamins. I think the only one that can survive is vitamin E.

So, am I missing something? Or is there a misconception on how antioxidants work?
 
I think you're right - unless they were added after the cook in HP, or to M&P soap. I also think that they dont do anything in a wash off product that stays on the skin for such a short time, so there's that.
 
I guess it's just label appeal. When I first started selling my soap I created a description for each formula that listed each ingredient and the qualities of that ingredient. I guess I should reconsider how that might be misleading. I didn't state the soap had antioxidants but rather listed the ingredients with each of their properties.
 
I guess it's just label appeal. When I first started selling my soap I created a description for each formula that listed each ingredient and the qualities of that ingredient. I guess I should reconsider how that might be misleading. I didn't state the soap had antioxidants but rather listed the ingredients with each of their properties.

It's my understanding that if you do this, you're making claims about your soap that technically puts it in the "drug" category, and thus required to get review/approval from the FDA. Check this out: http://blog.mariegale.com/fda-cracking-down-on-cosmetic-product-claims/

To be on the safe side, I think it's better not to say ANYTHING like that, and especially no remarks about what your soap can "do" (moisturize, treat eczema, cure cancer, etc.).
 
Good point. I don't want to mislead. And I do not state these qualities on my packaging. I know not to use words other than, soap. But I use ingredient description on my Etsy page to educate people on the ingredients. Feel free to take a look for me. I'd love feedback (oops am I sure I want to ask this ;) be easy on me please)
 
Good point. I don't want to mislead. And I do not state these qualities on my packaging. I know not to use words other than, soap. But I use ingredient description on my Etsy page to educate people on the ingredients. Feel free to take a look for me. I'd love feedback (oops am I sure I want to ask this ;) be easy on me please)

That's still a no-no as far as the FDA is concerned. You can't tell someone the benefits of, let's say lavender, and then show them your lavender soap because your insinuating that your soap has those benefits.
 
Lye oxidizes pretty much everything 100%. So why do I constantly read "this ingredient is great because its an antioxidant"?

NaOH and KOH are not oxidizers as far as I know. They undergo neutralization reactions with acids. Some of the fatty acids in oil or soap are prone to oxidation, which in the case of soap causes discoloration. Antioxidants can potentially slow or prevent that. The question is, which substances are effective for that purpose in soap? There are a few that can help. Ideally, a bit of BHT would stabilize the soap pretty much permanently. Unfortunately, we have to cater to the latest fads or irrational fears or distorted information, so for marketing purposes we have to use much less effective substances. A common choice from the realm of nature is rosemary oleoresin extract (ROE).

It would be a shock if any antioxidants in soap, good or bad, natural or man-made, had any relevance to the human body from product usage.
 
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That's still a no-no as far as the FDA is concerned. You can't tell someone the benefits of, let's say lavender, and then show them your lavender soap because your insinuating that your soap has those benefits.

Exactly. If you read through that link I posted, you'll see that it talks about that very thing. Unless you want your soap to be regulated as a drug, you can't talk about the benefits/properties of the ingredients, even if you're not directly stating that your soap has those properties. You also can't reference scientific studies that talk about the properties of these ingredients. Or post customer testimonials that talk about the medical-type improvements they experienced while using your product.

For example, on your Etsy shop (which is otherwise quite nice, I think!), you write:

"HAPPY TALLOW (pastured beef) ~ Rich in anti-aging antioxidants. Rich in vitamins A, D, E and K that nourish the skin directly. Easily absorbable as beef tallow closely resembles the human skin cell structure. Tightens and maintains integrity of skin cells. Promotes skin cell regeneration."

As lovely as that is, it's a perfect example of what NOT to do, even when it's true. Why? Because lots of people will (and do!) say things about their products that AREN'T true. So the FDA makes you prove it before you can say it. (In theory, anyway; they don't actually have the resources to chase after every crafter with a stick blender.)

This part "Tightens and maintains integrity of skin cells. Promotes skin cell regeneration." is especially problematic.

Yes, a lot of crafters -- and not just the small ones! -- still make these claims, directly or indirectly, and many of them do get away with it. And I think this causes downstream problems for all of us. Some customers are perfectly aware that many such claims are nonsense, and it taints their perception of EVERYBODY'S handcrafted soaps. Or they don't know what's truth and what's fiction, and when the soap fails to make them taller/thinner/younger, again their view of these products is tainted.

Now, will Agent Smith be knocking on your door tomorrow? Probably not. But I personally am choosing to be very careful not to violate these rules.

Unfortunately, we have to cater to the latest fads or irrational fears or distorted information, so for marketing purposes we have to use much less effective substances.

THIS. Amen. Makes me tear my hair out.
 
There is a middle ground here. Its not just soap or drug. You can chose to label as a cosmetic. This gives you a little bit of "marketing appeal". You can then say moisturizing, brightening, refreshing, and a lot more. What you can not say is anything that implies it will treat an illness or medical condition.
 
Thanks for the feed back! Updating Etsy is my least favorite soapy thing to do. Once I came up with a format, a bunch of info to fill in the space, lol, I've just been copying/pasting with little updates here and there. I do like to share the qualities of my ingredients because I do choose them very carefully for very specific reasons. But I know it's a fine line. Am I worried about anyone knocking on my door? No, not now anyway. But I'm more concerned with how it affects our industry. So I will make some changes.

Maybe it would be just as simple as stating, "these are the commonly believed qualities of each ingredient prior to becoming soap." Or something along those lines, maybe more descriptive.
 
It's my understanding that if you do this, you're making claims about your soap that technically puts it in the "drug" category, and thus required to get review/approval from the FDA. Check this out: http://blog.mariegale.com/fda-cracking-down-on-cosmetic-product-claims/

To be on the safe side, I think it's better not to say ANYTHING like that, and especially no remarks about what your soap can "do" (moisturize, treat eczema, cure cancer, etc.).

Well shoot, I just read the link you posted. We can't say a darn thing. That's frustrating. So I guess I'll change my Etsy ad to say, "here's my soap. It smells good so you should buy it. " lol
 
There is a middle ground here. Its not just soap or drug. You can chose to label as a cosmetic. This gives you a little bit of "marketing appeal". You can then say moisturizing, brightening, refreshing, and a lot more. What you can not say is anything that implies it will treat an illness or medical condition.

Yes! Excellent point. I think this is what many of us end up doing.

But you still can't say "promotes skin cell regeneration," even when you're talking about the ingredient by itself and not your soap. That's true not just on the label, but also on your website, Etsy, Facebook, brochure, business card, etc.

Knowing that many customers research the ingredients on their own helped me get over my disappointment about not being able to tout some of the fantastic contents of my soap in my (future, theoretical) marketing materials.

There is one requirement I'm pretty sure I'm going to willfully, knowingly violate: I don't think I'll be putting my home address on my label. I think there's a bit of a work-around for that if you're in the phone book or online directory.
 
To be on the safe side, I think it's better not to say ANYTHING like that, and especially no remarks about what your soap can "do" (moisturize, treat eczema, cure cancer, etc.).

Self-correction: Dorymae is right, you CAN say moisturizing. But nothing that treats/heals/cures/alters the body. Only stuff related to cleansing and APPEARANCE.
 
The "essential oils as cure-all" craze is totally out of control. Some of the claims people make about them are beyond ridiculous. ("ADHD? Autism? Brain tumors? Here, sniff this lavender EO!" I wish I were joking.) So there's a part of me that's glad the FDA has these regulations.

Now if only the shills who fancy themselves doctors would actually follow the rules.

. . .waiting to see if I get stomped on for saying this. . .
 
Oh gosh, yes, the essential oil thing floors me. I read an article the other day that said you could not be allergic to essential oils and that it was not humanly possible (they even had some bull scientific explanation for it...) Its very frustrating.

Any yes, cosmetics are the middle ground. However, if you live in Florida like me, be careful because you need special applications, to register your products and have your facility checked out by the state. Also, you cant register your business in a home.
 
The "essential oils as cure-all" craze is totally out of control. Some of the claims people make about them are beyond ridiculous. ("ADHD? Autism? Brain tumors? Here, sniff this lavender EO!" I wish I were joking.) So there's a part of me that's glad the FDA has these regulations.

How do the EO suppliers get away with it? Look at Camden-Gray. Every time I want to read an EO description there I have to skim through so much hokum. It reads like a medical textbook for nitwits. Sorry, I'm willing to believe that EOs can be therapeutic, but it's too much and seems inappropriate for a retailer.

Did you know the that Tree oil is...

"...antibiotic, antiseptic, antiviral, bactericide, cicatrizant, expectorant, fungicide, insecticide and sudorific. Tea tree has extensive applications in medicine and veterinary medicine (rarely, if ever, used on cats or birds, use caution). Its most important usage is to help the immune system fight off infectious diseases. Activates the white corpuscles to form a defense against invading organisms and helps to shorten the duration of illness. Indicated for influenza, cold sores, and gingivitis. A series of massage with this oil before surgery may help to fortify the body. Its strong antiviral and germicidal properties are useful in repeated infections. Its fungicidal properties help clear vaginal thrush and is of value with genital infections generally. Alleviates urinary tract problems such as cystitis. Gives relief to genital and anal itching as well as general itching from chicken pox to rashes caused by insect bites. Said to give some protection against x-ray therapy in breast cancer. It will apparently reduce scarring when applied before treatment as the protective film will guard against very deep penetration of the x-rays. Helps to ease otitis. Reduces pus in infected wounds. Clears blemishes caused by chicken pox and shingles. Useful with minor burns, sores, sunburn, ringworm, warts, tinea, herpes and athletes foot. Helpful with dry conditions of the scalp as well as dandruff." :Kitten Love:

It's good to know that I can get my white corpuscles activated and get rid of that anal itch at the same time.
 
That whole quote made me want to cry. Although there is some truth in there. You should not use it on cats or birds (EVER) and it is antibacterial (at least on non porous surfaces!!) Soon enough I think we will be seeing some law suits about this. This is the newest "snake oil" scheme. It makes me sad.

I love your response Top! :grin:
 

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