People scare me!!

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CraftyRedhead

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It's anyone else here also on the Facebook "cold process soap makers" page?? I've kept it on my news feed so I can see pretty soaps and get ideas, but here lately all the posts are about their first soap and selling?? I can't imagine wanting to sell my very first batch of soap??? Don't get me wrong, I loved my first batch, but I had no idea what I was doing back then!
Am I wrong for being upset about this? Maybe I'm just getting grumpy in my old age...

Here's one of them

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Wow! :crazy: That's pretty sad, maddening, and scary all at once. I sure am curious to know what the comments say beneath it.

If I had sold the very first soap I ever made, I would be out of business for sure before I even had the chance to sell a second bar. And the first bar would probably have been returned to me with the threat of a lawsuit (it was lye heavy).

Going by the time it took for me to really get a handle on soap making and come out with great soap that exhibited pretty consistent results, I would say that I would have been ready only to think about selling after about a year or so (not sell, but only think about selling). lol And that was with making lots and lots of soap batches (not just an occasional batch here and there). In my opinion, if one does not know enough about the soap-making process from the inside out to be able to troubleshoot simple things like air bubbles, they have a loooong way to go.

IrishLass :)
 
Unfortunately this is all too common. Better to take a deep breath and let it go. Trying to educate them is going to be met with resentment most of the time. Unfortunately, many people are short-sighted and don't realize that CP soap is an incredibly saturated market and not an easy means to make a quick buck.
 
Yep. Deep breaths.
My issue isn't that your FIRST batch is awesome, but what about all the batches to come? I STILL have issues sometimes. I've thrown more soap bars at the wall than I care to count :)
 
Hopefully the person was asking for knowledge and not really planning on selling the soap. My first batch was pretty solid, but I did a ton of research beforehand. It was a long time in the making till the bars were great enough to sell. I'm sure if people are rushing out to sell batch number 1 they wont stick around.
 
It's a topic that comes up on this forum oooooh, about......every two weeks. There's only two real outcomes: ignore the whole thing, because they usually don't want to hear about their poor decision, or rant about it with other soapers who want to rant about it, although you will not likely change anyone's mind or influence the premature vendor in any way.

Depends how much you want your blood pressure to go up, I guess. ;)
 
And I think I made 4 or 5 batches before I made one that could not be salvaged. I did do a couple or three rebatches before then. I have made quite a few since then, and have a recipe I am happy with, but as said above, the market is saturated. So, I make bar soap for friends and family, and am trying liquid soap out on others to possibly sell that. But, that learning curve is sharper than bar soap as I am continuously refining my process, so I have just a month ago given a batch for evaluation to someone who will use it in her shop. So far, the feedback is positive, but I am waiting before taking a different formulation for evaluation.(Also waiting for the cast to come off. :( )
 
Good to know I'm not being crazy - lol! I think one of the things that's bothering me the most is that the comments on this post are congratulating her on her soap, explaining the proper method to beat the bubbles out, and TELLING HER TO SELL HER FIRST SOAP. Ugh. Not one person has tried to explain the "wait at LEAST a year" recommendation. Really bugs me, and I'm sorry this post is repetitive to other posts - I had to rant!
 
I think the biggest question through all of this is; "what should be done about it?" To me I think 2 solutions work well enough. The 3rd solution is too bureaucratic and destructive overall.

1: Nothing
2: Nothing but have a voluntary "saponification certificate"
3: Government regulations/certifications of the soap industry

If we go route 1, we just let the free market clean up the bad products. If we go with route 2, we supra-subconsciously open up the flood gates to a more regulated market. And if we go with route 3, in the USA, we might cater to big business and crush the little guys.
 
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People scare me too! :roll: For me, I know a quality bar, what to look for in a label and anything that is "homemade" I am highly suspect. I was this way before soaping and how I am in life. I have faith others are too and will scrutinize what they buy. If the soaper puts out subpar products it will be the death of their business and 90% of businesses fail anyways (maybe not that high but its pretty high), and even less make money at it, so if I was a fortune teller that same person won't be around having a thriving business in future. It doesn't help that soaping is very common, everyone makes soaps now. Plus, a business takes equity, a little luck, and a lot of homework. It definitely sounds like she didn't do the last part.

This is coming from a person who was offered a retail store (my husband) to start a business, but I would never ever do this, no matter how much faith a person has in me, not saying I would never but it would be several years down the road as their is still too much to learn. I believe if you are going to do something, do it with all your might, all your heart and all your best.

I choose to wish these people luck, hope they don't quit their day job and really hope they don't hurt anyone with their products.
 
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I think the biggest question through all of this is; "what should be done about it?" To me I think 2 solutions work well enough. The 3rd solution is too bureaucratic and destructive overall.

1: Nothing
2: Nothing but have a voluntary "saponification certificate"
3: Government regulations/certifications of the soap industry

If we go route 1, we just let the free market clean up the bad products. If we go with route 2, we supra-subconsciously open up the flood gates to a more regulated market. And if we go with route 3, in the USA, we might cater to big business and crush the little guys.

To me, ie what follows is only my opinion, the question is why anyone would think anything should be done about it.

It is a very rare thing for soap to actually harm anyone with any lasting damage at all, this includes lye heavy soaps. Remember soap was made hundreds of years ago, when it was much more common for soap to have been lye heavy, yet there are very few stories in which grandma's lye soap did actual harm. Yes no one liked it, and it was said to "take the hide off you" which I assume meant it striped the skin pretty good and maybe even caused a slight chemical burn. That was then- now it is even more rare. . .

Are we worried that new soap makers will do actual harm? I don't think so. I think people get up in arms because they spent the time learning and are a bit miffed that some don't bother. You can't let people who don't spend the time to learn properly bother you. They won't last long you know, they will not harm your business - unless you have a very frail business on the verge of collapse. The people they sell soap to are not all going to abandon the idea of using handcrafted soap either. Some might but most people are a little smarter and have a bit more resilience than that. It is a part of economics that a market expands ( lots of new business ) and then contracts ( only the strongest survive ). What happens in the middle is that fair prices are established that allow the best balance between what is a good buy and what is a good profit.

Don't let it bother you at all. They will come and go - and perhaps a small percentage will actually learn along the way and survive.
 
To me, ie what follows is only my opinion, the question is why anyone would think anything should be done about it.

It is a very rare thing for soap to actually harm anyone with any lasting damage at all, this includes lye heavy soaps. Remember soap was made hundreds of years ago, when it was much more common for soap to have been lye heavy, yet there are very few stories in which grandma's lye soap did actual harm. Yes no one liked it, and it was said to "take the hide off you" which I assume meant it striped the skin pretty good and maybe even caused a slight chemical burn. That was then- now it is even more rare. . .

Are we worried that new soap makers will do actual harm? I don't think so. I think people get up in arms because they spent the time learning and are a bit miffed that some don't bother. You can't let people who don't spend the time to learn properly bother you. They won't last long you know, they will not harm your business - unless you have a very frail business on the verge of collapse. The people they sell soap to are not all going to abandon the idea of using handcrafted soap either. Some might but most people are a little smarter and have a bit more resilience than that. It is a part of economics that a market expands ( lots of new business ) and then contracts ( only the strongest survive ). What happens in the middle is that fair prices are established that allow the best balance between what is a good buy and what is a good profit.

Don't let it bother you at all. They will come and go - and perhaps a small percentage will actually learn along the way and survive.

Great points. Food and Medicine were once in the same category though. I think being worried about regulations is much more reasonable than being worried about the competition and incompetence seen.
 
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Yes, I'm on there and I just have to shake my head and ignore some things I read there. Lol!!
 
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=41483

The thread above is talking about EU regulations. I do not want this in the USA at all. The land of the free is still somewhat alive in the world of soaps and we should keep it that way. Let people be responsible for their product and consumers be responsible for their purchases.

Things like Soap Makers Certifications are a nice alternative to new regulations. I hope to have their cert logo on my site in the future, I'm not a member yet.
 
I admit I dislike regulations. I do not like playing to the lowest common denominator. I believe that if you buy a bottle of glass cleaner and drink it, you deserve what you get. It is futile to have to write " do not ingest" on a bottle of cleaner. If you are old enough to understand the word ingest, you should already know not to drink it. I believe most regulations although they are usually there for safety are usually common sense. It is quite sad that common sense is no longer common, but I can't see more regulations being the answer.
 
True - but they also ensure that the cooker cleaner which might well make your hands tingle a little won't actually strip the skin down to the bones.

The rules here are more about what we as soapers can do rather than just labelling. Recipes need to be approved, batches need to be properly controlled and tracked in case of any issues and so on.
 
True - but they also ensure that the cooker cleaner which might well make your hands tingle a little won't actually strip the skin down to the bones.

The rules here are more about what we as soapers can do rather than just labelling. Recipes need to be approved, batches need to be properly controlled and tracked in case of any issues and so on.

But that is not the job of the federal government in america. That should be a state issue at most and a personal business issue at best. That person creating horrible soap can be sued and prosecuted criminally for neglectful harm. We don't need legislation for everything that exists, that is the problem with america right now IMO.

In the USA we have shifted from a "Natural Law" society with each state having the power. To a "Political Law" society with an over-bloated central government attempting to control everything in the name of "safety".

I probably should not continue this too much further. I'm glad we talked about some of this though, thanks for the fun conversation.
 
Aye, not looking to get in to the ins and outs of federal vs state legislation (being a Brit, I think all laws should have a royal signature at the bottom anyway) but as I said - pros and cons: There are some upsides of soap selling having controls, but there are certainly downsides, too!
 
I think a lot of this is "pie in the sky" thinking and planning. Making soap is fun - finding places to sell, paying booth fees, getting up early to set up a booth are much less fun. I think people like to daydream about it.
 
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