What to use as antioxidants?

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Rune

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Hi!

I am very, very new to soap making, but have done a lot of research. I came across a site that claims grocery store bought olive oil will not work for soap making: https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/tips-and-tricks/olive-oils-created-equally/

I don't really believe the Soap Queen, since she is there to sell products from Brambleberry: "While you technically can make soap with small sized store-bought oils, you can see that the results can be unpredictable and in these tests, didn’t result in the highest quality soaps. In these tests, only the soaps made with Bramble Berry’s Pure and Pomace Olive Oils stood the test of time and did not behave poorly or develop DOS"

But what if she is totally right? It is too late to find a lot of DOS when you have made like 5 loafs and they have been curing for many weeks.

I can not buy anything from Brambleberry anyway, nothing from America at all, because of the high shipping cost. But there must be something that can be added to olive oil, a strong antioxidant.

I know about vitamin E, but that is too expensive for use in large quantities, and especially the natural vitamin E, which is the only one I can use in all natural soaps.

I know about citric acid and other acidic antioxidants. But they will mess up the recipe and make a soft bar because of acids neutralizing lye.

I also know about rosemary extract. That is a good option when rosemary scent is acceptable. But who wants rosemary scent in everything? So that is not an all-rounder.

But something must be out there, that is not synthetic, that is not too acidic, that is not too expensive and does not have a strong scent on it's own, and is so strong that it easily can be used to keep 1 liter of oil at a time fresh for a long time.

Do you know about anything?
 
You can add vitamins E or Rosemary Olserin. I add it to my oils when I open the bottle. Olive oil makes great soap. Many purchase it from their local grocery. I buy mine from COSTCO which is a large warehouse chain here.
 
Do you use the vitamin E capsules from Costco, from Kirkland Signature brand? That and another capsule is the only one I can find at costco.com. I should be able to find vitamin E capsules at a local health food store or the pharmacy, maybe cheaper than the liquid vitamin E.

I googled it now, and it is superexpensive here. And you get maximum 60 capsules. So that is not an option.

I have found prices for vitamin E in France (Aroma-Zone). It is 8 dollars for a 30 ml bottle. The strenght is only 50%, and I found on a forum that you are supposed to add 2-3 tablespoons per gallon of base oil. And we can double that since it is just 50% strong. And then the 30 ml bottle will be gone in an instant. So that is too expensive. Rosemary was even more expensive. Hmm. But there must be a cheaper alternative somewhere than vitamin E and rosemary.

I found on a Norwegian pharmacy's website that they have vitamin E for animals. That is in bigger bottles and full strenght, so it will be cheaper. But it's synthetic, and I can't use that if I shall claim my soaps to be 100% natural. And I really want to make all natural soaps. Not that I have anything against synthetic ingredients, but I'm just more attracted to the all natural scents and colors and so on. I like the bleeding and morphing and all the unpredictable stuff that natural colorants can do :-D
 
I am one of the very naughty people that like to use BHT. I have trouble with lard going DOS even when using ROE so I changed to BHT & Sodium Citrate. No Dos in lard anymore! Most lard will contain BHT so I just add a titch/pinch more to my 60 oz oil batches
 
You can use citric acid without it messing up your soap, you just have to add a little extra lye. There is a post about calculating how much, I'll see if I can find it for you.

Edit: I can't find the post but I have these notes written down.

Citric acid is used to create sodium citrate for a chelating agent/hard water softener/lather booster. For every 1000 grams of oils, you would add 10 g of citric acid and 6 g of extra lye to your water solution to create sodium citrate without extra superfat.

Personally, I've never had any issues with store bought olive oil. I don't believe a thing that comes out of the soapqueens mouth. She is above all else, a business women who's real interest is selling her products.
 
BHT is not produced naturally, as far as I can find out. So that I can not use. Sodium citrate will be made by itself by adding citric acid, so there is no need for buying that either, I think.

Citric acid, yes, that is something that should work. And it's very cheap here and available at every grocery store. That seems like a great idea if it can be adjusted by adding more lye. I knew that it should be possible, but not the exact amount (I am very afraid of getting a lye heavy soap). Thank you, I will definately try that method.

I don't think either it should be a big problem with a 100% olive oil soap. It has been made for generations, and they did for sure not buy the oil from Brambleberry. The Soap Queen's examples was getting really bad even before unmolding, so I guess that is as fake as it can be. But even worse if it's true. For if all olive oils fails completely but only Brambleberry's survive, what have Brambleberry added to their oil that is not available to others? Mercury?

But I wish to take some precautions anyway, since I plan to use some percentage of superfatting. Not too much, but suddenly horrible DOS appears and everything has to be thrown away. And olive oil soaps must cure for a longer time, so I guess it is an extra change of DOS to appear. Plus that refined oils go rancid quicker than unrefined, and I will use refined. But I have no experience, so it's just guessing. But to add some citric acid, that is a low cost alternative, and proven to be effective as an antioxydant.

If I understand right, can i use 1000 grams of oil already mixed with 10 grams of citric acid before storing, X minus superfatting plus 6 grams of lye, and then water? So let's say the lye calculator says 150 grams of lye when an 8% superfatting is chosen. Then I just add 6 grams, so it is 156 grams of lye in total. Or must I choose zero superfatting?
 
Aha, okey. The citric acid must be added to the lye/water solution. I was just googling and found out that citric acid is most likely not soluble in oil. But yes, I see that you write that it is added to the water solution.
 
And what is a chelating agent? I have googled that in both english and norwegian, and did not understand a thing other than it has something with a metal ring to do. Or some ions bonding to each other to form a ring. No, I don't get it at all.
 
A chelating agent helps to prevent soap scum in hard water. If you are planning to add it to the lye water, dissolve it completely in the water before adding the lye. Our own super smart DeeAnna has compiled soap making information for a lot of commonly asked questions, including using citric acid, sodium citrate and EDTA. Here is the link to her very helpful page:

https://classicbells.com/soap/soapyStuff.html

ETA: I use Costco olive oil as well, and have had no problems with it. Before that I used grocery store light olive oil without issues.
 
Also, if you plan on making 100% castille it's not a very good soap and needs to cure a very long time. A year and it's an okay soap.
 
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I use a chelator in my soap (tetrasodium EDTA). Not only does it help cut down on soap scum formation due to my hard water situation, but it is also very effective as a DOS-preventative.


Also, if you plan on making 100% points soap

LOL I read your post without having read the whole thread first, and I thought to myself, "Oooo! What is this thing called 100% points soap- a new Castile technique perhaps?" So I went back and read through the whole thread to find out more about 100% points soap, only to figure out it was just a case of "Dang you Autocorrect!" lol I take it that you meant to say 100% Castile soap, correct? :lol:



IrishLass :)
 
Aha, okey. The citric acid must be added to the lye/water solution. I was just googling and found out that citric acid is most likely not soluble in oil. But yes, I see that you write that it is added to the water solution.
It is much safer in my opinion to dissolve the citric acid in water instead of adding it to the lye Then dump into your oil. Just take out some of your water before mixing your lye. I never mentioned that BHT was natural, just very good at deterring dos apparently at its best if used with Sodium Citrate. This is according to test done by Kevin Dunn author of the Scientific Soapmaking book. I used to use Citric Acid at a rate of 3% total batch weight, but found it to be to much. It would precipitate out of the soap and crystallize on the outside, it did not hurt anything and washed off but I did not like it so changed to 2% and it was better. Just times the amount of citric acid by 0.624 for the total extra lye needed.
 
Another thing that Kevin Dunn reported is that vitamin E didn't do squat, compared with the other antioxidants and chelators that he tested. I really, really question whether vitamin E is useful in this context. Might be great on skin, but in soap or soaping fats .. not so much.
 
LOL I read your post without having read the whole thread first, and I thought to myself, "Oooo! What is this thing called 100% points soap- a new Castile technique perhaps?" So I went back and read through the whole thread to find out more about 100% points soap, only to figure out it was just a case of "Dang you Autocorrect!" lol
LOL Too funny! In any case, I believe styrax benzoin oil has preservative qualties. Here's an article by the esteemed Martin Watt on the subject, as well as extracts in general:

ETA - Deleted the link. It didn't work... BRB ...Here's the corrected link:

https://www.naturesgift.com/aromath...ntial-oil-safety/benzoin-a-safe-preservative/
 
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I use a chelator in my soap (tetrasodium EDTA). Not only does it help cut down on soap scum formation due to my hard water situation, but it is also very effective as a DOS-preventative.




LOL I read your post without having read the whole thread first, and I thought to myself, "Oooo! What is this thing called 100% points soap- a new Castile technique perhaps?" So I went back and read through the whole thread to find out more about 100% points soap, only to figure out it was just a case of "Dang you Autocorrect!" lol I take it that you meant to say 100% Castile soap, correct? :lol:



IrishLass :)


Having a rough day with autocorrect
 
Rune, I am sort of a newbie to CP too. But I think I have found my groove. My favorite thing to do is substitute the water or some of the water of your lye with juices or purees from natural elements. Soaping1o1 on utube has amazing videos on this.

The other day I had vegetables left (carrots and cucumbers) and I juiced them to use as my lye water. Loved the results, it did not even need color or fragrance. You can get your antioxidants that way.
 
Rune, I am sort of a newbie to CP too. But I think I have found my groove. My favorite thing to do is substitute the water or some of the water of your lye with juices or purees from natural elements. Soaping1o1 on utube has amazing videos on this.

The other day I had vegetables left (carrots and cucumbers) and I juiced them to use as my lye water. Loved the results, it did not even need color or fragrance. You can get your antioxidants that way.
Unfortunately they will fade in color and the tiny bit of scent will not stick. You are not going to get enough antioxidants to keep the soap from getting dos if it chooses to.
 
Unfortunately they will fade in color and the tiny bit of scent will not stick. You are not going to get enough antioxidants to keep the soap from getting dos if it chooses to.


Oh have not gone to that step yet ... they are curing. I will watch them! Tanks for the info.
 

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