Lard V no Lard

1) You can sub Lard for Palm or Shea Butter in any recipe (recalculate lye)
2) Lard 'sticks' scent better than just about anything I can think of.
3) Oakmoss absolute neutralizes the odor of lard in CP soap. (Also a great anchor for EO blends.)
4) Pediatric nurses around the turn of the last century cleaned new-borns with lard.
5) Great laundry soap / stain stick at 0% lye discount/superfat
6) Pretty, hard white bar as a single oil soap; takes color well.
7) Good for skin problems, including acne and eczema.
8) Cleansing, conditioning, moisturizing.

Ivanstein said:

Is it impossible in the Scandinavian countries and Australia to get pork fat from a butcher and render your own lard? It's how my grandma made soap back in the day

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You could do that but i think people in the forum have discovered that after all the work the amount of fat you get at the end is much, much more expensive than excellent quality OO.

In 1884 lever bros started making soap from palm and vegetable oil rather than tallow or lard. That's when the modern industrial soap revolution took off because the product was so much nicer. The old ways aren't necessarily the best.

On the ethical questions - I would love to see somebody do the math of how much cropland, water, etc it takes to produce 1 ounce (or whatever measure) of lard vs 1 ounce of shea butter, canola oil, etc. Also keep in mind that most vegetable oils have to go through mechanical and chemical processes, vs animal fats.

I like the feel of the lard soap but I don't like the smell it smell piggy that's only I can complain over lard.

biarine said:

I like the feel of the lard soap but I don't like the smell it smell piggy that's only I can complain over lard.

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Biarine, as I mentioned above, Oakmoss Absolute neutralizes the odor of animals fats. With so many "lardinators" on this forum, I'm surprised no one if them seems to know that. I learned that on another forum --- waaaaaay back in 2004 when I first started soaping.

Zany_in_CO said:

Biarine, as I mentioned above, Oakmoss Absolute neutralizes the odor of animals fats. With so many "lardinators" on this forum, I'm surprised no one if them seems to know that. I learned that on another forum --- waaaaaay back in 2004 when I first started soaping.

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I got oakmoss before but I never tried to use them in soaping. Thank you for the information because some scent didn't take off the scent of lard.

earlene said:

Not true for everyone. I do not prefer lard. I use it for some soap for my family, but do not prefer it for myself. I am much happier with my non-animal fat recipes.

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This is me too. When I use soap with lard in it my face breaks out. And I HATE soaping with lard. (of course I've only soaped with it a handful of times many years ago... but hated every minute of it.)

It's true it takes forever to trace (I'd say it rivals 100% OO soaps) but it stinks (IMO) and my soaps with lard got ash on them. Every single one of the batches with lard got ash, where as 95% of my non-lard soaps never have.

This is just my experience though, and appears to not be the norm.

jcandleattic said:

It's true it takes forever to trace (I'd say it rivals 100% OO soaps) but it stinks (IMO) and my soaps with lard got ash on them. Every single one of the batches with lard got ash, where as 95% of my non-lard soaps never have.

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Just curious, Janel... I'm wondering if you soap lard "room temp"? water discount? high superfat? To my mind, all of these would contribute to slow trace, soda ash, and possibly DOS due to unsaponified fat (not sure).

Zany_in_CO said:

Just curious, Janel... I'm wondering if you soap lard "room temp"? water discount? high superfat? To my mind, all of these would contribute to slow trace, soda ash, and possibly DOS due to unsaponified fat (not sure).

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Slight water discount, 5-6% superfat (if I remember correctly), and slightly warmer than RT - I believe it was closer to about 90-95° temp when I soaped with it.
Never got DOS, just ash - not deep, just enough to notice it was there. And yeah, took FOREVER to trace. I'm thinking at least 5-10 minutes with having to stop and hand stir every few minutes to give my stick blender a break.
I'm not sure if I ever posted my pics of my lard soap from back then on here or not. I can look and see.
Even with breaking out, I would have probably continued to make lard soaps for my customer base (I do get asked for them every now and then) but since I do break out, and hate the process, I just don't make them.

penelopejane said:

You could do that but i think people in the forum have discovered that after all the work the amount of fat you get at the end is much, much more expensive than excellent quality OO.

In 1884 lever bros started making soap from palm and vegetable oil rather than tallow or lard. That's when the modern industrial soap revolution took off because the product was so much nicer. The old ways aren't necessarily the best.

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I could not disagree with you more. I love lard. I love tallow. I render my own and I get plenty for my efforts. They started making it from palm and vegetable oil because it was *cheaper*, not because it was better.

I've also never had a piggy smell at all. Low heat dry rendering seems to yield the best lard, to my nose. No need to neutralize anything.

penelopejane said:

You could do that but i think people in the forum have discovered that after all the work the amount of fat you get at the end is much, much more expensive than excellent quality OO.

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Not to be argumentative, not at all, but just to be clear, pig fat is free for those who don't mind the time & trouble it takes to render it. The profit margin makes it well worth it.

For the sake of the OP, comparing lard to OO is like comparing apples to oranges. I'm just sayin', they both have important but different roles to play in creating a soap formula, i.e., lard, tallow, palm, shea butter serve basically the same purpose and can be subbed one for the other.

Olive oil, on the other hand, has the unique ability of bringing all oils/fats in the formula into saponification. One could say there is no sub for OO altho you can manipulate the % of several vegetable oils to match OO's unique composition.

Also, I feel I should mention that "excellent quality OO" is hard to access in the USA -- according to the OO Council at UC Davis, 85% of the EVOO on grocers shelves in 2016 was adulterated.

penelopejane said:

In 1884 lever bros started making soap from palm and vegetable oil rather than tallow or lard. That's when the modern industrial soap revolution took off because the product was so much nicer.

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True, PJ, as far as that goes. However, later, when glycerin was required for the war effort, it was removed from soap and for Lever Bros (and others) "soap" became "bars", i.e., "Beauty Bar", "Sports Bar", "Deodorant Bar", etc. when detergents and synthetics were then introduced to provide the same cleansing power and other qualities offered by good old-fashion soap!

Old ways are not always the best. I agree. But, I hope we can also agree, neither are new ways. That's why so many people are flocking to forums like SMF. Whether old fashion lard/tallow soaps are better than all vegetable oils is pretty much a moot point. We all have our preferences and will buy/make whichever we prefer.

It strikes me as very funny -- what goes around, comes around.

And so it goes.

Zany_in_CO said:

...
Also, I feel I should mention that "excellent quality OO" is hard to access in the USA -- according to the OO Council at UC Davis, 85% of the EVOO on grocers shelves in 2016 was adulterated.
...

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That should be 69% in 2010 from UC Davis. It seems there has been a lot of improvement in recent years as well. The North American Olive Oil Assn now says that 98% of olive oil on US store shelves is authentic, based on hundreds of test a year. (Link)

BrewerGeorge said:

That should be 69% in 2010 from UC Davis. It seems there has been a lot of improvement in recent years as well. The North American Olive Oil Assn now says that 98% of olive oil on US store shelves is authentic, based on hundreds of test a year. (Link)

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I would edit that to say North America rather than the US.

BTW, thank you BG for this more current link!

Zany,
Since it is an international forum we should try and differentiate. You can't get large amounts of pig fat free on Oz (according to my butcher) unless you kill your own pig.

I think it's only bars that have synthetic detergents that are called 'beauty bars'. Both commercial 'soap' and commercial 'beauty bars' have the glycerine removed. According to google so may not be accurate.

Australia grows a lot of OO and we haven't had the 'adulterated' olive oil scare to the extent you have. Although there is still some debate about imported EVOO. We have cheap good quality Australian grown OO readily available.

I agree there are benefits to be found in all fats and we are free to use whatever we want to make beautiful handmade soap!

I think in Oz there is a mindset from people against lard and tallow in handmade soap. Tallow is used in a lot of commercial soap here.
I've learnt from my parents that using certain things and eating certain food is "depression food". This mindset continues here.
We seem to be fussier (or more pretentious!) than those in the US about animal fats, preservatives, additives and a whole lot of other stuff.

So I don't think there can be a blanket statement about lard for all on the forum.
PJ

Just to add to the interesting conversation - where I live in Canada, if soap sold in stores is not syndet, the main ingredient is usually tallow, it seems. Since I started making soap, I've been fascinated with picking up commercial soap and reading the ingredients label. I almost always see that if it's not a syndet bar, "sodium tallowate" is the star ingredient! So on this side of the world, it seems to be pretty standard to make soap with tallow - I assume because the price is right for manufacturers. Just thought I'd share that little tidbit!

penelopejane said:

Zany,
Since it is an international forum we should try and differentiate. You can't get large amounts of pig fat free on Oz (according to my butcher) unless you kill your own pig.
PJ

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And even then it's not 'free'. I live near what claims the dubious distinction of being the 'hog capital of the world' (the truth of that claim, is questionable, but they do claim it) and there is no 'free' lard where I live. I wouldn't want it even if it were free. I have no desire to render any animal fats, let alone lard, and certainly have no desire to have my house smell like rendering lard for however long the smell would linger! In any case, I doubt the local hog or pig farmers view any part of their animals as 'free.' Not even the local meat choppers give away bones for free to dog owners anymore, let alone any other parts. They use it or sell it all, including the blood for blood sausage. My apologies to anyone who works in the butchering industry, some of my family have done. I don't like the products and the many stories they have told me leave me cold.

Zany_in_CO said:

Biarine, as I mentioned above, Oakmoss Absolute neutralizes the odor of animals fats. With so many "lardinators" on this forum, I'm surprised no one if them seems to know that. I learned that on another forum --- waaaaaay back in 2004 when I first started soaping.

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Being a lardinator, I've never had piggy smelling soap once I learned not to overheat the lard when melting it down. Even my first couple batches that did smell some, lost the piggy scent with a cure.

I use armour brand only, other brands do smell a bit more. I'm way too lazy to render my own lard when it can be bought. I do however have to render tallow if I want to use it since stores here do not carry it.

Rendering shouldn't make your house smell bad at all. When I rendered my tallow, it didn't smell much different than cooking hamburgers.

But I don't cook hamburgers. And I don't cook bacon either. In my experience, all meats I ever cooked had a smell, as do most other foods. But meats tend to stick around in the house longer than vegetables, unless I burn them. I cook fish and I cook chicken and occasionally beef, and rarely pork loin for my husband, but the odor does linger in the house, depending on how I cook it, of course. I cooked organ meats when I was young, and those odors were quite long lasting and permeated my house. If I were ever to render fats, I'd probably want to do it outdoors for that very reason (odors). I mean if it ever gets to the point that I have to slaughter an animal in order to survive, well yes, I'd probably make use of the fat in some fashion as well and why not make soap with it? But then again, if I had to eat the meat to survive, I'd probably eat the fat, too.

BrewerGeorge said:

That should be 69% in 2010 from UC Davis. It seems there has been a lot of improvement in recent years as well. The North American Olive Oil Assn now says that 98% of olive oil on US store shelves is authentic, based on hundreds of test a year. (Link)

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That link is from the North American Olive Oil Association. As importers and purveyors of imported olive oil, they have a vested interest in discrediting the California Olive Oil Commission at UC Davis. So as not to be duped, it might be better to use an independent source such as Business Insider, June 2017:
http://www.businessinsider.com/where-how-to-buy-real-extra-virgin-olive-oil-2017-6

I've been following this fraud on the American public ever since I lost 6 months of sales due to adulterated olive oil in 2007. It wasn't until the owner of Soapers Choice stepped in and offered to test my OO that I finally learned about "fake olive oil". I sent in two samples, one from a reliable local supplier and one from a gallon tin I bought from a Natural Food Store. Both tested as having the same SAP value as soy oil!

I could write ad nauseam about this subject but this isn't the time or topic of this thread... sorry for the hijack everyone.

earlene said:

But I don't cook hamburgers. And I don't cook bacon either. In my experience, all meats I ever cooked had a smell, as do most other foods. But meats tend to stick around in the house longer than vegetables, unless I burn them. I cook fish and I cook chicken and occasionally beef, and rarely pork loin for my husband, but the odor does linger in the house, depending on how I cook it, of course. I cooked organ meats when I was young, and those odors were quite long lasting and permeated my house. If I were ever to render fats, I'd probably want to do it outdoors for that very reason (odors). I mean if it ever gets to the point that I have to slaughter an animal in order to survive, well yes, I'd probably make use of the fat in some fashion as well and why not make soap with it? But then again, if I had to eat the meat to survive, I'd probably eat the fat, too.

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In my country in Philippines our Lard hasn't piggy scent. I love it we cook using lard it's homemade but I can't understand why here in uk it's so piggy.