Is doing M&P Cheating? Like a Box Cake Mix?

fionasfrightsoap said:

...................I feel that buying a premixed base and reconfiguring it into your own soap bar is not cheating, or inferior..........

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I completely agree with this! I want to say that first of all. Of course, it CAN be inferior, but it can also be superior, depending on what is being compared to what - a great M&P soap can be way better than a bad CP soap and a bad M&P soap can be miles worse than a great CP soap.

BUT -

fionasfrightsoap said:

..............Just as you buy flour, eggs and sugar and combine it to make a cake, I feel that buying a premixed base and reconfiguring it into your own soap bar is not cheating, or inferior................

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I feel that this analogy is a bad one. M&P is buying a ready made cake and adding to it - the base itself is a finished product, to say otherwise is to say that an unscented, uncoloured CP soap is not actually a soap but as we know soap is not defined by colour or scent. An M&P base is soap and can be taken and used as soap, where as each ingredient in CP soap is not in itself soap - as an egg alone is not a cake, but needs the other ingredients to make a cake.

I do agree with your interpretation of that analogy, what I was thinking in my mind is that you're taking a base that is pre-made, like a stick of butter maybe - but then melting it down and adding ingredients to make your own product. Maybe that's better? I have to say I am really enjoying this forum! Learning a lot as I go

I appreciate the opinions here. Personally I am starting out with M & P because I am hesitant about the lye water mixing. I live in an apartment and have a small child. However the CP soaps are what I want to end up doing I just feel that M & P is a simple way to start off.

CP vs MP

IMOP:
CP = more control of the internal product ( IE OILS ) and have time to kill

MP = no control over internal products and is for someone that has a limited amount of time and does not want to wait 3 weeks.

as far as for decorating ideas.
I have seen some really Artistic CP soap Decoration
if you have the time to paint your silicone mold with your cp soap
and then add the layer to it etc. they sky the limit.


MP you go straight to the artistic part of it you cut on step out .
and I have seen some Nice Artistic Soaps decoration both with MP and CP
I love Science . So I love anything that can has chemistry involved.
Hence I do not like MP soap.

damitajo said:

I appreciate the opinions here. Personally I am starting out with M & P because I am hesitant about the lye water mixing. I live in an apartment and have a small child. However the CP soaps are what I want to end up doing I just feel that M & P is a simple way to start off.

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I would not worry about making cp soap in your apartment. be careful,use the right containers and use all protective equipment. you can mix your lye outside. I do consider M&P soap like a cake mix, but so what?. Look whats in something like a biscuit mix in a box. sugar,flour,salt,Baking powder, etc........Now make it from " scratch".....get a bowl and put in, :"sugar,flour,salt,Baking powder, etc........ )........I bet I spend more time making a batch of M&P soap as I do CP. it depends on what you want to do I guess......either way, its not rocket surgery.....lol

Honestly, I think it depends on how creative you want to get.

Cold process does indeed require more research, but once you've got a recipe down, thats it, you can use that same recipe for many of different kinds of soap, with the only reasons to change it up would because because you either wanted to try something new, or a scent you really like seizes/rices your current recipe and thus you want to make it work with a different one. However, once you got a recipe down, there doesn't have to be any more work involved other then actually make the soaps.

Melt and Pour requires less research but tends to be more technical. Design wise you can do a lot more to make it look exactly how you want. It can very easily take more time to do depending on what design you're going for.

For example, I have a Bar of soap I can only get doing MP. "I Choose You" is a white bottom, a red top, and a big black circle in the middle but doesn't touch the edges. Basically it resembles a Pokeball because I like to appease the nerds with cool soaps. While I'm sure I could do a White bottom, Red top, and a Black center in CP, I couldn't be able to suspend a black circle in the middle, let alone make one. I could do a swirl, but for this soap I want less of a Chaos affect and more of a precise design.

However my "See You Space Cowboy" Cowboy BeBop Inspired Soap looks more like Space, and thus want a more Chaos affect, and I'll strictly do that one as CP. Depending on where I cut I could get just stars, or bits that look like galaxies or planets, sometimes it's to be discovered as you use the bar. I will make MP embeds for this bar that I stick on top to resemble the fact that their ship is flying in space, but the MP Embeds take me less time for this project than making the universe in the soap.

It honestly depends on what type of design you're looking to do. CP is more Chaotic and MP is more Precise.

Oh and Hot Process/HP is just fragrant Mashed Potatoes :0)

KatATK said:

Honestly, I think it depends on how creative you want to get.

Cold process does indeed require more research, but once you've got a recipe down, thats it, you can use that same recipe for many of different kinds of soap, with the only reasons to change it up would because because you either wanted to try something new, or a scent you really like seizes/rices your current recipe and thus you want to make it work with a different one. However, once you got a recipe down, there doesn't have to be any more work involved other then actually make the soaps.

Melt and Pour requires less research but tends to be more technical. Design wise you can do a lot more to make it look exactly how you want. It can very easily take more time to do depending on what design you're going for.

For example, I have a Bar of soap I can only get doing MP. "I Choose You" is a white bottom, a red top, and a big black circle in the middle but doesn't touch the edges. Basically it resembles a Pokeball because I like to appease the nerds with cool soaps. While I'm sure I could do a White bottom, Red top, and a Black center in CP, I couldn't be able to suspend a black circle in the middle, let alone make one. I could do a swirl, but for this soap I want less of a Chaos affect and more of a precise design.

However my "See You Space Cowboy" Cowboy BeBop Inspired Soap looks more like Space, and thus want a more Chaos affect, and I'll strictly do that one as CP. Depending on where I cut I could get just stars, or bits that look like galaxies or planets, sometimes it's to be discovered as you use the bar. I will make MP embeds for this bar that I stick on top to resemble the fact that their ship is flying in space, but the MP Embeds take me less time for this project than making the universe in the soap.

It honestly depends on what type of design you're looking to do. CP is more Chaotic and MP is more Precise.

Oh and Hot Process/HP is just fragrant Mashed Potatoes :0)

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Hello and welcome to the forum!

You absolutely could make your "I Choose You" in CP. Just make your circle in a pvc pipe or pringles can and then pour your bottom layer at a thicker track and lay the round soap on top then pour your top layer. I've seen it done. Haven't done it myself though.

But you can certainly do more detailed things with MP that only a master artist could do with CP. And there are some out there. So envious.

shunt2011 said:

Hello and welcome to the forum!

You absolutely could make your "I Choose You" in CP. Just make your circle in a pvc pipe or pringles can and then pour your bottom layer at a thicker track and lay the round soap on top then pour your top layer. I've seen it done. Haven't done it myself though.

But you can certainly do more detailed things with MP that only a master artist could do with CP. And there are some out there. So envious.

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I'll have to look to see if I can find PVC in the right size. I'll probably also have to hope that the layers don't come apart because I created all the layers on different days. I'll also probably have to hope that if I do find PVC in the right size, that my soap doesn't change sizes to be able to fit the black piece, which could easily differ on the day that I make it on because weather in the north is a little less predictable. There is even chaos in the issues that I would have. No amount of being a master CP artist is going to be able to prevent most of the issues I've already encountered by trying.

Also Pringle's can has an aluminum metal coating on the inside that would react with the lye in very bad ways. I wouldn't suggest that to anyone doing CP.

Basically the point of my original post is that there are some things you can't do with CP and some things you can't do with MP. Both have their pros and cons and it's ok to do one, the other, or a combination of both.

MP Also technically costs more per bar to make. For me it is about $1.14 per bar, while CP costs more like 97c per bar. As an artist I do put an equal amount of work in most of my soaps so I got price them around the same, since my bars are $5 per bar I'm making plenty off of both.

In the end I feel as if it comes down to more or less what you want to do. You want to do only CP? Then do just that. Want to do only MP? So be it, have fun with it. Want to do HP? Cool, do it. Are you new and nervous about doing CP or HP? Dive right into it anyway, the only thing that will make you better is practice and doing MP doesn't help with practicing doing CP or HP.

Just have fun, be creative, and be happy with what you do. That is what most hobbies should be about.

shunt2011 said:

Hello and welcome to the forum!

You absolutely could make your "I Choose You" in CP. Just make your circle in a pvc pipe or pringles can and then pour your bottom layer at a thicker track and lay the round soap on top then pour your top layer. I've seen it done. Haven't done it myself though.

But you can certainly do more detailed things with MP that only a master artist could do with CP. And there are some out there. So envious.

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Slight detour from topic (please forgive me)

How does one get the soap out of the PVC pipe?

I have used a Pringles can once, but I had to rip it off of the soap in order to to get it out.

I've used a Pringles can many times. I do line it with some parchment paper, but a little batter gets on the inside and I have never had problems

JayJay said:

Slight detour from topic (please forgive me)

How does one get the soap out of the PVC pipe?

I have used a Pringles can once, but I had to rip it off of the soap in order to to get it out.

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Just line it with freezer paper and you should be able to pop it out immediately! Push it out through the other end, don't pull.

I agree, just line with freezer paper or you can also line them with the silicone fondant mats from Michaels. Pringle cans work like a charm when lined. I've done that many times with no issues.

But also, do you want just a "pretty" soap or do you want a soap that makes your skin feel amazing? I don't work with MP for many reasons, the main one being that it feels as though it leaves a film on my skin.

People make soap for all kinds of reasons - you have to decide what you want before you know what medium you'll use to make it.

I make both for different applications. I prefer CP but want to learn the artisticness of MP

I've never known MP to leave a film unless you use something from a craft store. Bramble berry carries an awesome MP bases, as do a lot of companies. I do both and find that MP is better for certain types of skin. CP is fun but MP is just a little more so.

There's definitely room for both. I think it really just depends on how much one is willing to educate themselves on the possibilities of both and then they are only limited by their creativity.

They can be mingled with one another or used alone, and what you can do really is just about limitless on either side in one fashion or another.

I love both. My very very first foray into soaping was with a few pounds and a kit from Hobby Lobby of melt and pours. I didn't like the end result or the soap product itself, I made a huge mess, some of that M&P base is still unused on my shelves and some of the soap bars are still unused, but I had a great time learning and it was enough to get me hooked. I knew the product was probably not a very good soap base, since I had read voraciously for months before even picking the stuff up, and I was right. But Impatience hit me one day and I didn't want to wait to order anything.

When I M&P now sometimes I still make a huge mess. I now have much better bases but I love doing both in different ways. It's sort of like crocheting and knitting I guess, or loving the twin girls, each is unique and wonderful in their own way, at least to me.

Although I will say the one twin girl is messier than me when SHE melt & pours, and she still only will pick colors and stir cold process soaps (and use them of course).

I think what I love best about M&P is how micas shine in clear bases, and what I love best about CP is how it fells when you use it.

Now that I think about it, the only time I have ever seen anyone complain about some selling MP is when they lie about it or are uneducated about it. Saying their soap is Lye-Free or pure glycerin soap.
Same goes for any product though, like lotion without a preservative and so on. People that are just complaining because it is MP or say it is not real soap just need to have faith in their own product.

Honestly I think either way is fine. Some people like to do CP and some like M&P. Whichever works for you is fine. I do M&P and i love it. So dont worry anything you like is fine.

Ha Ha, this has made me think...Now what if a soaper creates his or her own melt and pour from scratch?? Hey, then it is handmade, and so, would they, that person, advertise as melt and pour soap? I ask this because so many people have such strong opinions one way or the other. Some, and I do me some, say that melt and pour is like a box cake because it is not handmade. So, if a soaper makes his or her own handmade melt and pour and then has a booth next to a cold process vendor, I kind of wonder if they would both be on the same playing field. But I think that the Artisan would need to somehow specify that they make the soap, just like an Artisan who makes Cold Process. Otherwise how in the world would the customer even know? Huh, interesting. I guess we all can go round and round this topic and never ever really just settle on an end. Lol, it all kind of feels very political too. Democratic or Republican? Ha Ha...it is just politics, no matter how you look at it, and we are dealing with soap, at the end of the day we make soap.

I make my own, although I never remelt it. I call the soaps transparent homemade soap. I will admit they do not have the incredible artistry like the M&P we were discussing. They could but I don't have the patience for that so they are simple designs and molds.