ph of olive oil based soap

It has now been two weeks since my first HP batch/recipe and there definitely still changes happening in my bars. Green color from EVOO is fading (using a milder OO now), OO odor is going away, the bars are getting harder, etc. I have tried four recipes now as my wife and I look for a favorite. One of the things that we still don't have right is the cleansing/drying vs moisturizing mix even though some of our bars are essentially copies of commercial favorites, including a 78% OO, 22% CO and 20% SF CO. So far, our formulas are still too harsh. Is this one of the factors that will keep changing with time or do I need to explore the addition of more moisturizing or conditioning oils? I am going to try recipie number five this week.

Thanks,

George

DeeAnna said:

There's even case law in the US that specifically defends this broad usage of the word.

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LOL! Well, that just figures. Leave it to the law. That's how a tomato legally became a vegetable, in the US. (I think that was a congressional decision.)

GeorgeG said:

It has now been two weeks since my first HP batch/recipe and there definitely still changes happening in my bars. Green color from EVOO is fading (using a milder OO now), OO odor is going away, the bars are getting harder, etc. I have tried four recipes now as my wife and I look for a favorite. One of the things that we still don't have right is the cleansing/drying vs moisturizing mix even though some of our bars are essentially copies of commercial favorites, including a 78% OO, 22% CO and 20% SF CO. So far, our formulas are still too harsh. Is this one of the factors that will keep changing with time or do I need to explore the addition of more moisturizing or conditioning oils? I am going to try recipie number five this week.

Thanks,

George

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Yes, as a bar cures and improves, it often becomes milder and more luxurious. This is true for me no matter which process I use for making the soap. For me and my skin, I prefer a lower CO content, but with that much OO, I would let that soap cure much longer than two weeks before I tested it.

Yes, keep trying recipe variations, but to get a good idea of what you and your skin likes best, keep really good notes as you test the different formulas, including dates of your observations. You will find that time makes a huge difference when you look back at your notes.

"...moisturizing or conditioning oils..."

I'm going to be the devil's advocate here. The answer to getting a mild soap is not more and more superfat. Also soap doesn't moisturize or condition; it cleans. You can make soap that is a mild cleanser or a strong cleanser. But you need a lotion or other leave-on product to get actual moisturizing and conditioning.

Most, if not all, of the superfat in soap goes down the drain because soap is an emulsifier. An emulsifier's job is to turn fat into a water-soluble form so it does not stick to your skin. This emulsification happens whether the fat is the natural fats on your skin, greasy dirt from living life, or the superfat in the soap.

Your recipe is highly water soluble with only olive oil and coconut oil as the ingredients. Are you not willing or able to use fats high in stearic and palmitic acids? These fatty acids are important to a mild, gentle soap because they reduce the solubility. Lower solubility adds mildness, and your soap will also last longer.

At 22% coconut oil, your recipe has a goodly percentage of lauric and myristic acids. These fatty acids tend to make many (not all, but many) people's skin overly dry and taut. If you're skin is feeling stripped, you may need to reduce this percentage considerably.

I also recommend dropping the superfat to a reasonable level that's suited to the soap recipe. A 20% superfat is used if you're specifically making a soap that's very high to 100% coconut oil, but in general a 20% superfat is far too high. All you're doing is cutting the lather, increasing the chance of softness and rancidity, and possibly causing problems with your plumbing.

As usual, I'm going to completely agree with DeeAnna.

One of my favorite conditioning winter soaps has a super fat of 3%, which is my standard (I'm incredibly careful when measuring). That recipe is modest in terms of oleic acid--48%, and modest in terms of stearic and palmitic at 28%.

I personally find that oatmeal additives really help me out in terms of skin friendliness (and adding to lather, for that matter). This particular recipe has one heaping teaspoon of colloidal oatmeal per pound of oils. I've gone as high as 22g PPO, or about 5%.

However, conditioning is a bit of a misnomer and I've never been terribly happy with it. "Doesn't strip my skin" is the essential goal here, as soap can't moisturize.

The above recipe does that.

Soap also becomes milder the longer it cures. Frankly, I dislike Castile (100% olive) at an age under 1 year. I find it leaves my skin a bit tight-feeling, although others disagree.

That's an extreme. All soaps get milder and nicer as they age, though. 3 month cures for the "average" soap is about right for that--although I found some 5 year old soap stored that I forgot about. That stuff was pure magic.

A follow up for anyone searching these threads. I have discovered that the experienced soap makers here are spot on. Your bars really do continue to change significantly for months and among other things, cleansing gets more mild/less stripping. The result of this besides patience resulting in a better bar of soap is that your ideal coconut oil % is impossible to fully determine at a few weeks because that % goes from too harsh to just right 6 months out or more, maybe even not high enough. Given that CP results in a prettier bar with less flaws, HP loses most of its appeal unless you are in a hurry and need a quick but only decent bar of soap. My original bars where I used high end virgin OO were very green at the outset. 6 months out they literally lost all of their green color so changes definitely continue to occur. I never used that oil again but it helped to drive the point home. I'm not as patient as some so it was an adjustment to think in terms of 6- 12 months cure times but at least were not making Kentucky bourbon. LOL.

George