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MissLunaB said:
Sorry, by "bad soap" I mean "excessive lye". pH testing can be used instead of zap testing to test for excessive lye.
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Nope, and this seems to be the hub of the back and forth. pH testing will not, cannot, tell you anything about exactly what is IN that soap. This is not an opinion. It is an objective fact, that can be tested out in a laboratory. And there isn't a reliable, easy, inexpensive test OTHER than the zap test that will reliably determine the presence of excess lye. This is, again, not an opinion. It is objective fact. There are ways to determine the presence of excess lye, yes. They are not available to the average home soapmaker. The zap test is. This is why people get so ardent about promoting it. If you come up with some other way that is reliable, easy, and cheap, we WILL be interested in it. pH strips are not that answer.
 
The Efficacious Gentleman said:
Indeed, the crux is this - at what pH is a soap safe in the sense of no interacted lye? At what pH is it safe in that sense? Two perfectly safe soaps can have very different pH levels and both can be very lovely soaps, neither of them being bad in any way at all.
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The answer to your question is the full normal range of pH for soap, provided it has been tested for the presence of unreacted lye. pH does not in any way indicate the presence or absence of unreacted lye. One possible exception- if your soap tests to a pH of 14 or higher, I'd feel pretty safe in assuming the presence of lye. Also, keep in mind that pH strips are notoriously unreliable, and their reported results are entirely useless if the correct procedure isn't followed. So, if you just rub the test strip on a patch of wet soap, you will not get an accurate reading, so why bother with the test in the first place?
 
I do zap test.
I have been zapped - but only a couple of times.
I also only licked a 9 volt battery a couple of times.
Same reason.

If I wait a week and do the damp finger on the bar and then to my tongue I know whether or not I am going to get a zap now. finger feels like it.
Trust me. You learn by doing.
Don't lick the battery though.
 
jcandleattic said:
No toes stepped on here, and no hot buttons pushed for me. I thought we were having a very level-headed back and forth conversation.

I was explaining my side and my reasoning. Sorry you felt that was me being aggressive or whatever.

I never once thought you were saying one way was better than the other, but as has been explained, repeatedly, and even from the article you yourself posted, pH strips will in no way tell you if you have "bad soap" with excess lye (lye-heavy, unsafe soap). They will tell you if your pH levels are high or low. Which is what they are designed to do.
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Ok good, I didn't want to turn into a bad guy on my first day of school XD


Kittish said:
The answer to your question is the full normal range of pH for soap, provided it has been tested for the presence of unreacted lye. pH does not in any way indicate the presence or absence of unreacted lye. One possible exception- if your soap tests to a pH of 14 or higher, I'd feel pretty safe in assuming the presence of lye. Also, keep in mind that pH strips are notoriously unreliable, and their reported results are entirely useless if the correct procedure isn't followed. So, if you just rub the test strip on a patch of wet soap, you will not get an accurate reading, so why bother with the test in the first place?
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Which brings me back to my first question, why do "experts" say to use this test? That's what is boggling my mind. I've read several books from 5 different authors and they have all said the same thing on how to test soap(if it wasn't the strips it was the dye)they have all mentioned the zap test. If it's such a bad idea why continue to repeat the same bad information over and over again? Just like the vinegar on a lye burn, that's not true, that's like putting butter on a real burn.[emoji848]
 
And just so you guys know I liked licking almost dead 9v batteries all the time as a kid because I like the sensation XD that was before I lost it at the tip of my tongue
 
The vinegar on lye is a good example - it makes "sense" in that you need an acid to neutralise a base effectively. But the effect would be thermal burns from the reaction! Like HP needing no cure, the "experts" hear it or read it and repeat it. Then someone else reads that and repeats it. And so on.

Not only that, but with something more static like a book or a blog post, it is harder to make sure that the reader understands the process which might leave the author open to action if the reader does it wrong - "you said to zap test so I shoved a handful of soap batter in to my mouth, now give me money because I was injured"
 
The Efficacious Gentleman said:
Like HP needing no cure, the "experts" hear it or read it and repeat it. Then someone else reads that and repeats it. And so on.
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Oh boy! YES! This one drives me nuts. What people seem to fail to realize is that even CP is "safe" to use once it has saponified, and there is no active lye (within 2-3 days usually) but there is no way I would use that 'young' of a CP soap, same as I would never use a 1 day old HP soap. Just because it's safe doesn't mean it's not harsh.

Anyway, thank you EG for the analogies, they are perfect.
 
MissLunaB - I could read your posts all day. You obviously have a terrific sense of humor and quick wit. Your first soap looks lovely and your post seems to read that you made under a bit of pressure - so KUDOS to you. For starters you might try making the same recipe again without distractions and see what happens. (After a while you'll run out of olive, just grab the "mediterranean blend" and see what happens.) I came across one of my favorite recipes when I replaced PKO with Cocoa Butter and ricebran with avacado. Happy surprises happen.

I personnally don't zap test much, though will from time to time if I'm unsure about a cure. It reminds me of when I was a girl and got soap shoved in my mouth for talking back or being a smart mouth - - It's a wonder I don't blow bubbles to this day. On this site feather's get ruffled, fur flies and toes get tapped on. Some have inveterate beliefs and are not shy. There are many, many seasoned and knowledgeable soponifiers willing to help and guide you. You'll pick what works best for you.
 
Gini said:
MissLunaB - I could read your posts all day. You obviously have a terrific sense of humor and quick wit. Your first soap looks lovely and your post seems to read that you made under a bit of pressure - so KUDOS to you. For starters you might try making the same recipe again without distractions and see what happens. (After a while you'll run out of olive, just grab the "mediterranean blend" and see what happens.) I came across one of my favorite recipes when I replaced PKO with Cocoa Butter and ricebran with avacado. Happy surprises happen.

I personnally don't zap test much, though will from time to time if I'm unsure about a cure. It reminds me of when I was a girl and got soap shoved in my mouth for talking back or being a smart mouth - - It's a wonder I don't blow bubbles to this day. On this site feather's get ruffled, fur flies and toes get tapped on. Some have inveterate beliefs and are not shy. There are many, many seasoned and knowledgeable soponifiers willing to help and guide you. You'll pick what works best for you.
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Thank you for your kind words and advice Gini! Words of encouragement like these is what keeps people from giving up and moving on (not saying that I was)Thank you!
As for my silliness well let's just say it will pop up from time to time, this bud of sunshine likes to put smiles on people's faces :)
~Luna
 
Are you guys putting your tongue on the soap directly? Yikes! Zap test by wetting a finger and gently rubbing it on the soap, then touch a small part of your tongue to your finger tip. We are talking about a tiny amount. You will know if it zaps.
 
Skatergirl46 said:
Are you guys putting your tongue on the soap directly? Yikes! Zap test by wetting a finger and gently rubbing it on the soap, then touch a small part of your tongue to your finger tip. We are talking about a tiny amount. You will know if it zaps.
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If done correctly, NO, you don't put your tongue directly to the soap.
The correct way to zap test is described in a link that Kittish posted early in this thread.
 

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