How low can you go?

I hope my question will make sense, but I'm looking to get opinions as to how low of a percentage of any particular oil is so low that it no longer makes a difference in a given recipe. For example, will using 2% CO in a recipe that has 5 other oils make a noticeable difference? Just one of those late night curiosities.

For most people for most oils, the limit is 5%. That's just a guide of course, it doesn't means that at 4.9% you wouldn't notice it. There are also some exceptions, like beeswax (not really an oil, I know) or lanolin which do their jobs at a lower amount

I agree with TEG. Anything below 5% isn't worth the time to measure out in my opinion. With the exceptions that TEG listed.

From my personal experience (not much) the only oil that makes a difference at 5% is castor oil.
Other oils need to be at least 10% and upwards before you can tell/feel any difference.
Just my 2 cents.

I use beeswax at 5%. I can tell a big difference between no beeswax, beeswax at 5% and beeswax at 10% (too much).

Another ingredient I'd add to TEG's lanolin and beeswax is jojoba due to the high unsaponifiable content in this wax. I seldom hear about people using carnauba or other waxes in their soap, but I imagine they qualify as well. Otherwise I also think about 5% is the lowest percentage of an oil to get any measurable effect.

I notice a trace difference using 2% versus 5% castor

DeeAnna said:

Another ingredient I'd add to TEG's lanolin and beeswax is jojoba due to the high unsaponifiable content in this wax. I seldom hear about people using carnauba or other waxes in their soap, but I imagine they qualify as well. Otherwise I also think about 5% is the lowest percentage of an oil to get any measurable effect.

Click to expand...

I agree with DeeAnna and TEG.

The only "oil" other than the ones TEG and DeeAnna mentioned that is noticeable in bar soap at less than 5% is stearic acid. I know it's not really an oil, but 2%-3% stearic in a soap recipe is noticeable. Also I think most butters and castor oil are noticeable at 5%, below that I doubt it; but I've never used them below 5% so I'm unable to say for sure.

Maybe meadow foam oil would be noticeable due to its unique profile.

bumbleklutz said:

I agree with DeeAnna and TEG.

The only "oil" other than the ones TEG and DeeAnna mentioned that is noticeable in bar soap at less than 5% is stearic acid. I know it's not really an oil, but 2%-3% stearic in a soap recipe is noticeable. Also I think most butters and castor oil are noticeable at 5%, below that I doubt it.

Maybe meadow foam oil would be noticeable due to its unique profile, but I've never used it so I'm unable to say for sure.

Click to expand...

Trust me there is a noticeable difference with castor. When I want to slow trace I cut castor to 2-3% depending on how much I want to slow it

cmzaha said:

Trust me there is a noticeable difference with castor. When I want to slow trace I cut castor to 2-3% depending on how much I want to slow it

Click to expand...

I'll give that a try, seems like I'm always trying to slow down trace. Sorry, I mistyped/cut and pasted my post. I've corrected it now. Proves you should never try to post without previewing. Especially when the dogs are trying to get your attention away from the computer.

wearytraveler said:

For example, will using 2% CO in a recipe that has 5 other oils make a noticeable difference? Just one of those late night curiosities.

Click to expand...

Well, Weary Traveler, dear heart, you sound like you need to keep on traveling the soap road! haha With 2% CO + 5 other oils you'll likely have something more like soup instead of soap, and it's quite likely to take forever and a day before you can unmold... then cut... then a loooooooong cure. Interesting question, tho. There have been many swaps over the years that focused on 100% of various oils; but I've never seen a single swap to test the opposite.

Seriously, a well-balanced formula consists of Coconut Oil (and/or one of the other oils that provide cleansing, hardness & lather) + Olive Oil (and/or one or a combo of the other liquid oils that provide conditioning) + Palm Oil (and/or one of the other oils that act as a filler). From that point, any oil/butter/fat/additive will bring its unique quality to the basic formula -- at varying %'s, depending on the oil/fat/additive used and intended result.

The good news is that you don't hafta make a bunch of soaps to test how low you can go to test results. The next time you're in one of those late night quandaries, head over to SoapCalc and play. Be sure to read all the drop down menus -- there you will find the qualities that each oil brings to the formula. When creating a recipe, aim for an INS value of 160 -- so-called "perfect" soap (according to Dr. Bob McDaniel who originated the concept). You also want a balance between saturated/unsaturated fats and that value shows up on the next page, after you click "calculate".

You might want to start with 100% each of coconut, olive, palm to see their particular values in the various categories; then combine the 3 at different %'s until you arrive around 160 INS value and 50/50 Sat/Unsat. From there, you can sub different oils, or a combo, for each of the 3 basic oils.

That's not to say you should always be at 160 INS and 50/50 Sat/Unsat. Many soaps vary widely from those values. Also, most soaps vary widely from the basic "trinity of oils", i.e., Coconut, Olive & Palm. But it's a good place to start playing.

HAVE FUN!

CeeMoor said:

Well, Weary Traveler, dear heart, you sound like you need to keep on traveling the soap road! haha With 2% CO + 5 other oils you'll likely have something more like soup instead of soap, and it's quite likely to take forever and a day before you can unmold... then cut... then a loooooooong cure.

Click to expand...

That would really depend on the other oils used. Coconut is not the only oil that adds hardness. And olive needs a long cure but others, lard and palm for example, do not.

Seriously, a well-balanced formula consists of Coconut Oil (and/or one of the other oils that provide cleansing, hardness & lather) + Olive Oil (and/or one or a combo of the other liquid oils that provide conditioning) + Palm Oil (and/or one of the other oils that act as a filler). From that point, any oil/butter/fat/additive will bring its unique quality to the basic formula -- at varying %'s, depending on the oil/fat/additive used and intended result.

Click to expand...

I personally don't consider any oil a "filler" since they all add properties from their fatty acid make-up. Some oils fall into more than 1 category as well.

The good news is that you don't hafta make a bunch of soaps to test how low you can go to test results. The next time you're in one of those late night quandaries, head over to SoapCalc and play. Be sure to read all the drop down menus -- there you will find the qualities that each oil brings to the formula. When creating a recipe, aim for an INS value of 160 -- so-called "perfect" soap (according to Dr. Bob McDaniel who originated the concept). You also want a balance between saturated/unsaturated fats and that value shows up on the next page, after you click "calculate".

You might want to start with 100% each of coconut, olive, palm to see their particular values in the various categories; then combine the 3 at different %'s until you arrive around 160 INS value and 50/50 Sat/Unsat. From there, you can sub different oils, or a combo, for each of the 3 basic oils.

That's not to say you should always be at 160 INS and 50/50 Sat/Unsat. Many soaps vary widely from those values. Also, most soaps vary widely from the basic "trinity of oils", i.e., Coconut, Olive & Palm. But it's a good place to start playing.

HAVE FUN!

Click to expand...

Playing in SoapCalc to arrive at values you want to see is a great and cost effective way to learn about the things the calculator can figure for you. There are some things you just have to try to see tho. Single oil soaps have horrible values in SoapCalc, but how many people love castille? And a 100% coconut oil bar with 20% superfat isn't drying to *most* people. There are also discussions here about things none of the calcs take into account, like other fatty acids, that certainly add different things to your soap.

dixiedragon said:

I use beeswax at 5%. I can tell a big difference between no beeswax, beeswax at 5% and beeswax at 10% (too much).

Click to expand...

I have seen many experience soap makers use beeswax. What is the purpose of it?

Beeswax is used to harden soap. It's melting point is around 180F and doesn't saponify.

To my understanding it adds similar hardness as coconut without the cleansing (but I could be very wrong here).

cmzaha said:

Trust me there is a noticeable difference with castor. When I want to slow trace I cut castor to 2-3% depending on how much I want to slow it

Click to expand...

Thank you for pointing this out again. I keep having too fast a trace. It is either that or too much stick blending.

I use an oil at 4% in one of my recipes and I do notice it.

SunRiseArts said:

I have seen many experience soap makers use beeswax. What is the purpose of it?

Click to expand...

It hardens the bar. It makes a very hard bar with a sleek feeling I really like. 10% is draggy, almost lotiony feeling.

dixiedragon said:

It hardens the bar. It makes a very hard bar with a sleek feeling I really like. 10% is draggy, almost lotiony feeling.

Click to expand...

Thank-you! I was looking for a way to describe it, and "sleek" is terrific!

I like it at about 3% in high olive-oil soaps because it seems to diminish the gel effect and adds a lovely feel ... sleek!

Thank you! Is the beeswax the same candle makers use? I am afraid to sound silly, but I'd rather ask .....

SunRiseArts said:

Thank you! Is the beeswax the same candle makers use? I am afraid to sound silly, but I'd rather ask .....

Click to expand...

I've never made beeswax candles, but I think so. I use beeswax pastilles, which are little dots and are easier to measure and melt.