BrewerGeorge
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About warm honey
I Hate to Ask, but I'm Confused
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Like Susie, I also don't heat the soap paste when I dilute. I just put the paste and liquid into a container, smoosh the paste into somewhat smaller chunks with a spatula or potato masher, cover the container to keep curious noses out of trouble, and walk away. It's nice to start this in the evening. As I pass by and think about it, I smoosh the chunks a bit smaller yet, recover the container, and walk away. The paste usually dissolves in 12-24 hours with little effort, no hovering, and no heat. I've done this with LS paste made only with water and paste made with varying amounts of glycerin with good results.
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Thanks!
In an earlier post you said you didn't have ps80, correct?
Was your recipe simply oils and lye - no added stearic or other ingredients?
I'm asking because I always thought handmade ls was as thin as water, which won't work for my purpose (kids). (Your "warm honey" thickness sounds nice).
I have oo, co, castor, 90% koh, glycerin (and a quart jar)...hope I'm ready to try this tomorrow. Its sounds too good to be true....(spoken in a gleeful tone of disbelief because I had long dismissed the idea of making liquid soap after 3 etsy purchases of water thin soap, and thinking that it needed lots of non oil additives that complicated the whole process!)
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It's really true, Lenarenee. A recipe high in oleic acid -- like IL's recipe that I shared in Post 2 of this thread -- can be like honey or syrup when diluted with care. It's really easy to add too much water, especially when a person is new to liquid soaping, so plenty of patience and good notes are the key to getting the dilution just right.
A soap that is lower in oleic acid such as Susie's laundry soap (also mentioned in Post 2) will naturally be thinner (not as syrupy), all other things being equal.
If you want a low oleic soap to be syrupy or if you want a very thick body gel type of consistency, then it's likely you will need to add a separate thickener to the soap. Thickeners can include stearic acid, gums, etc. But that's something I'd leave for another batch of liquid soap, not a person's first.
The keys to a syrupy liquid soap without a separate thickener are high oleic acid and careful dilution.
A soap that is lower in oleic acid such as Susie's laundry soap (also mentioned in Post 2) will naturally be thinner (not as syrupy), all other things being equal.
If you want a low oleic soap to be syrupy or if you want a very thick body gel type of consistency, then it's likely you will need to add a separate thickener to the soap. Thickeners can include stearic acid, gums, etc. But that's something I'd leave for another batch of liquid soap, not a person's first.
The keys to a syrupy liquid soap without a separate thickener are high oleic acid and careful dilution.
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ngian
Well-Known Member
I have read that if we make the paste with a brine water (the part of liquid that dissolves KOH) then when we will dilute the paste the liquid soap will have more easily honey thickness if the recipe has more oleic acid.
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I hope I didn't sound like too much of a doubting Thomas - I didn't mean to infer that people were making things up.
I have tons of unwanted Costco olive oil and this just might be a happy way to use it up.
You did not sound like a doubting Thomas. You sounded like you needed more information. Which is why we are all here, right? To learn and share.
And DeeAnna is exactly right, the high oleic soaps are just thicker if you dilute very carefully and slowly. Do try IrishLass' recipe, and follow the list of ingredients carefully. I do not do the superfat with meadowfoam oil or use the PS80, and I got gloriously thick soap with the rest of the recipe.
And DeeAnna is exactly right, the high oleic soaps are just thicker if you dilute very carefully and slowly. Do try IrishLass' recipe, and follow the list of ingredients carefully. I do not do the superfat with meadowfoam oil or use the PS80, and I got gloriously thick soap with the rest of the recipe.
Lenarenee- one of the things I gleaned from my GLS mentors over at the Dish is how easy it is to get a beautifully thick liquid soap with the glycerin method. Take 100% coconut LS made via Failor's method, for example. From what I heard from those who had tried making 100% coconut LS via Failor's method, or even a formula with just 35% CO made the same way, it was virtually unheard of to end up with a thick LS, but when they tried making it via the glycerin method, they were shocked and surprised at how thick they were able to get things.
The 65% olive oil GLS formula that I make is as thick as pourable honey without any thickeners added to it at all, and my cocoa shea GLS formula also comes out beautifully thick like pourable honey- and it's very rich and creamy to boot because of the stearic acid that I add during dilution.
I've made one batch of 100% CO GLS so far and I can attest that you can get it to dilute out nice and thick. Mine is as thick as my Dawn Ultra.
Just start out with a small amount of dilution water to begin with, and keep playing around with your dilution rates until you get the thickness you like.
Just so you know, there is such a thing as adding too little water. If you don't add enough, you'll end up with a blob of undiluted paste floating on top when all is said and done. That happened to me several times when trying to perfect my dilution rate for my creamy cocoa shea formula (it near enough drove me mad!), but I just kept playing with it and playing with it. It wasn't until I was very careful to add only mere drops of water to it at time until I finally hit the jackpot. Adding just a little water at a time is key. I swear, there were a couple of times when I added a mere half mL water (which I thought should have been piddling little enough), but it ended up being too much and made the soap too thin for the likes of me and I had to heat it out (which is a bit fussy, but works well, by the way). So, like Susie said, do be careful to go slow when figuring out your perfect dilution rate.
IrishLass
The 65% olive oil GLS formula that I make is as thick as pourable honey without any thickeners added to it at all, and my cocoa shea GLS formula also comes out beautifully thick like pourable honey- and it's very rich and creamy to boot because of the stearic acid that I add during dilution.
I've made one batch of 100% CO GLS so far and I can attest that you can get it to dilute out nice and thick. Mine is as thick as my Dawn Ultra.
Just start out with a small amount of dilution water to begin with, and keep playing around with your dilution rates until you get the thickness you like.
Just so you know, there is such a thing as adding too little water. If you don't add enough, you'll end up with a blob of undiluted paste floating on top when all is said and done. That happened to me several times when trying to perfect my dilution rate for my creamy cocoa shea formula (it near enough drove me mad!), but I just kept playing with it and playing with it. It wasn't until I was very careful to add only mere drops of water to it at time until I finally hit the jackpot. Adding just a little water at a time is key. I swear, there were a couple of times when I added a mere half mL water (which I thought should have been piddling little enough), but it ended up being too much and made the soap too thin for the likes of me and I had to heat it out (which is a bit fussy, but works well, by the way). So, like Susie said, do be careful to go slow when figuring out your perfect dilution rate.
IrishLass
kchaystack
Supporting Member
Well I jumped in and followed Deeanna's CliffsNotes version.
I was really worried at first because it took forever to trace. I finally gave up on it getting more than a light trace and set it aside and worked on some salt bars. Tonight was just a night of firsts!
After the salt bars were in the individual molds, I went back, and wouldn't you know it - it was taffy. I stirred it with a plastic spoon, and even got some flying bubbles.
So now it is sitting until tomorrow just to make sure it is done - and I will start dilution
I was really worried at first because it took forever to trace. I finally gave up on it getting more than a light trace and set it aside and worked on some salt bars. Tonight was just a night of firsts!
After the salt bars were in the individual molds, I went back, and wouldn't you know it - it was taffy. I stirred it with a plastic spoon, and even got some flying bubbles.
So now it is sitting until tomorrow just to make sure it is done - and I will start dilution
Yay!
I said: "... A soap that is lower in oleic acid ... will naturally be thinner (not as syrupy), all other things being equal. ..."
IL said "...I've made one batch of 100% CO GLS so far and I can attest that you can get it to dilute out nice and thick...."
I realize I'm making this matter sound more black and white than it really is -- I am glossing over some things in an effort to keep matters simple.
To be clear, I agree with IL that a low oleic soap can be diluted to a honey-like consistency. The catch is this syrupy "sweet spot" is narrower for a low oleic paste than a high oleic paste. It's easy to dilute a bit too much and when you overshoot the dilution, the diluted soap will have a watery consistency.
A high oleic soap has a wider sweet spot where it will have a syrupy consistency. This means it is a more forgiving soap to dilute, so it's a good choice for beginners or impatient soapers.
IL said "...I've made one batch of 100% CO GLS so far and I can attest that you can get it to dilute out nice and thick...."
I realize I'm making this matter sound more black and white than it really is -- I am glossing over some things in an effort to keep matters simple.
To be clear, I agree with IL that a low oleic soap can be diluted to a honey-like consistency. The catch is this syrupy "sweet spot" is narrower for a low oleic paste than a high oleic paste. It's easy to dilute a bit too much and when you overshoot the dilution, the diluted soap will have a watery consistency.
A high oleic soap has a wider sweet spot where it will have a syrupy consistency. This means it is a more forgiving soap to dilute, so it's a good choice for beginners or impatient soapers.
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Thanks for letting me know - I'm going to go back to my post and add the appropriate tone of hopeful disbelief.
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baylee
Active Member
I so appreciate you posting this, Susie. I want to try Irish Lass' recipe but don't have meadowfoam oil or PS80. I also don't have cocoa butter but thought about just using shea butter. Do you think just using shea butter for the 2 butters would work Irish Lass?
I love this forum!
kchaystack
Supporting Member
Here is my paste and 100g being diluted so I can figure out my ratio.
The catch is this syrupy "sweet spot" is narrower for a low oleic paste than a high oleic paste. It's easy to dilute a bit too much and when you overshoot the dilution, the diluted soap will have a watery consistency.
A high oleic soap has a wider sweet spot where it will have a syrupy consistency. This means it is a more forgiving soap to dilute, so it's a good choice for beginners or impatient soapers.
True that.
With my 100% CO GLS and the creamy cocoa shea, all it took was a mere few drops extra to send me muttering under my breath back to the drawing board because I overshot it, but the 65% OO formula had a wider range of acceptability to me, i.e., an extra mL of water wasn't so bad/didn't thin things out too much for my personal likes. baylee said:
I've never tried it with all shea for the butter component, but it sounds like an experiment I'd certainly like to try. You'll have to adjust the KOH amount of course, and chances are that you'll probably also have to change the dilution rate, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
Instead of meadowfoam seed oil for the extra superfat after dilution, you can use any other liquid oil, but I'd definitely get some PS80, without a doubt. That's an essential for that particular formula that you'll need in order to keep the finished soap from separating.
IrishLass
kchaystack
Supporting Member
So i figued I'd show off my first shot at diluting my paste. This is from 100g of paste with about 60g water. Its not quite clear because i added a few drops of lemongrass eo. But it lathers well enough. I've got another 200 grams starting to dilute tomight.
Beautiful! Well done!
Very nice!
