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Old 09-04-2016, 02:05 PM   #11
LilyJo
 
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Don't agree with the lack of ecological benefits, for me soy is far better in terms of its green credentials and to be honest its a doddle to work with as long as you treat it with respect. Have been using CB135 since the start.

Have been making and selling candles for over two years and dont have any issues with frosting; the hot and cold throw is stable (always dependent on the FO used). The only noticeable issue found however is that soy is affected by the harvest - so a batch this year is not likely to perform the same as next year - its a plant product so it is always subject to variations dependent on weather and harvest. These are the reasons why batch numbers and tractability are vital when selling.

Think the trick is to find out what works for you in terms of temperature FO is added, temp the candle is poured and the consistency of where the candle is stored. Storage affects the long term viability of candles no matter what anyone says, FO can fade and huge temperature fluctuations cause the candle to expand and contract away from whatever container it is used in.

Its always worth considering the temperature and humidity also, both affect the quality of the candle as does the speed at which it is allowed to cool - slow cooling is far better than forcing it to cool quickly.

One thing I would say is that colouring soy wax is a bit of a nightmare - most colourants are paraffin derived and the combination of paraffin and soy plays havoc with the consistency of the finished product - any frosting will always be more apparent.

Finally, as far as we are concerned, candles should always cure for at least a week before an initial test burn - anything less and the fragrance is affected.



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Old 09-04-2016, 02:41 PM   #12
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I agree that the various waxes are all different. I have not experienced the frost-development issue over time, so probably some waxes do that, but not all. As for soy candles, I can't agree with this statement: "there is no ecological or health advantage to using it" -- it's derived from a plant, not petroleum, so, yes, there are ecological or health issues/advantages, imo. I too have enjoyed the GW415, TOMH -- have you tried GW444? I'm currently comparing the two waxes side by side.


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Old 09-04-2016, 06:41 PM   #13
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This renewable, ecological, non-sooting hype has been debunked many times, but there will always be a new crop of people to repeat it.

Go to the oils section at the supermarket. Soy wax is the same thing as the bottle of Crisco soybean cooking oil you'll find there. It was produced by big companies on huge pieces of land that were cleared to grow crops. It took energy, much of it from petroleum sources, to plant it and fertilize it and water it and harvest it and refine it and hydrogenate it (to make it hard) and ship it, not to mention some of the same chemicals. That's all it is, some fat for shortening baked goods. You're scenting, pouring and burning a container of oil, not an ecological miracle.

Nobody would take crude oil out of the ground to get paraffin wax. It's just not worth that much. Crude oil is extracted for other priorities and the paraffin wax is a by product that happens to perform superbly for candlemaking. There is no problem with using it. Paraffin and soy shortening both make sooting or non-sooting candles depending on how they are wicked. Both put exactly the same things into the air when you burn them.

Paraffin is a natural, plant-derived product. You can hardly get more natural than something extracted from the earth. It is put through no particular transformations apart from refining it out of the crude oil. Soy oil also has to be refined, but additionally it is put through an artificial chemical transformation to harden it into flaked shortening, aka soy wax.

These are just two things you can use to make candles, and they are both fine. Arguably paraffin is much more flexible in what you can create and produces a considerably more stable product. There is nothing wrong with using soy oil either, but there is really too much marketing hype and fraudulent research (Tong Wang) used to sell it.
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:58 PM   #14
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I think you are completely wrong and personally I just dont happen to agree with the use of bleached petrochemicals in order to produce candles. Much as I dont agree with use petrochemical derived plastics, palm oil or recyclable containers.

There are (and I think always will be) two schools of people who will investigate and come up with their own hypotheses to support their own argument - many people believe that paraffin wax and burning paraffin candles is completely wrong and a health hazard. There are a great many research papers that support that view and whilst there are a sizeable number of papers contradicting (not "debunking" but contradicting), in my view the jury is still out.

As such I would rather err on the side of caution and whilst my own opinion is that I prefer soy or rapeseed candles, many other people like to use paraffin and do not accept any ecological argument. That is their entitlement; it is not up to me to lecture them or to try and change their view - people come to candle and soap making from their own standpoint and ethics and must make their own decisions on what works for them and how it impacts their ethical perspective.

You have your view and I have mine - it is up to both of us to respect each other and let other candle makers make their own minds up. Neither of us has the benefit of 100 years of hindsight to say who is correct.
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Old 09-04-2016, 08:28 PM   #15
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I am no chandelier, but do consider that many plant oils can become harmful when heated, such as olive being great for use raw but not so good for hot frying. So while soy might be fine as an oil, it is still being burnt.

Petrochemicals were also plants and animals - it is in that respect a very natural product
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Old 09-04-2016, 11:14 PM   #16
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I think there's always going to be a place for paraffin candles, but the more I learn about the composition of the material, the less there is to like in regard to issues such as indoor air quality. It (paraffin) emits hydrocarbons and contains chemicals which are not the healthiest things to breathe in on a regular basis, such as benzene.

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... Petrochemicals were also plants and animals - it is in that respect a very natural product

lol

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Old 09-05-2016, 03:47 AM   #17
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I think there's always going to be a place for paraffin candles, but the more I learn about the composition of the material, the less there is to like in regard to issues such as indoor air quality. It (paraffin) emits hydrocarbons and contains chemicals which are not the healthiest things to breathe in on a regular basis, such as benzene.


lol
I don't expect to change anyone's mind. I've been in this for a decade and I know how it goes. I just state the facts. Paraffin candles have no adverse health effect and there is no credible evidence that they do. Period.

People make this argument hypocritically while they load up their candles with as much fragrance oil as possible, casting vastly more mystery substances into the air.

Alkanes like paraffin are abundant throughout the universe and fall like rain on some planets, but it's hydrogenated soybean oil that's natural. Okay.
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Old 09-06-2016, 12:24 AM   #18
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I don't expect to change anyone's mind. I've been in this for a decade and I know how it goes. I just state the facts. Paraffin candles have no adverse health effect and there is no credible evidence that they do. Period.

People make this argument hypocritically while they load up their candles with as much fragrance oil as possible, casting vastly more mystery substances into the air.

Alkanes like paraffin are abundant throughout the universe and fall like rain on some planets, but it's hydrogenated soybean oil that's natural. Okay.

I've been making candles with paraffin wax for a long time, so I don't have anything against it. However, to say that paraffin candles don't emit any toxins would be like saying that beeswax doesn't help purify the air. Of course paraffin has a down side, and now that soy wax is becoming popular, it probably is so that many people are starting to realize some things about paraffin that they hadn't thought of before, or at least not so much.

I did a little interesting reading and I'm going to share some tidbits here with you for whatever it's worth. What I read is much more than I had anticipated, btw.

This has to do with an area in Poland during their candle burning ceremonies for "All Saints’ Day" -- I don't know what they use in their candles, it's probably a more unrefined paraffin that we use in the U.S., but it's interesting (to me) anyway.
(Forgive the length, but I'd like to share a bit of this.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Excerpt from the page I read ...

Light aromatic hydrocarbons = BTEXS

Tests were carried out at town-located cemeteries in Opole and Grodków (southern Poland) and, as a benchmark, at the centets of those same towns. The purpose of the study was to estimate BTEXS emissions caused by the candle burning and, equally important to examine, whether emissions generated by the tested sources were similar to the BTEXS emissions generated by road transport.

During the festive period, significant increases in benzene concentrations, by 200 % and 144 %, were noted at the cemeteries in Opole and Grodków, as well as in toluene, by 366 % and 342 %, respectively. Styrene concentrations also increased. It was demonstrated that the ratio of toluene to benzene concentrations from emissions caused by the burning candles are comparable to the ratio established for transportation emissions.

The test results indicate that as a result of candle and cemetery candle burning, BTEXS, mainly benzene, toluene and styrene, are emitted to the environment.

On another note: Benzene has been shown to be a multi-organ carcinogen in animals.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's not my intention to say that we shouldn't burn paraffin in our homes at all, but I do feel that it's important to understand any risks that might be involved if we do it in a closed environment.
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Old 09-06-2016, 09:16 AM   #19
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Does it not come down to how pure the paraffin wax is? Purely on a chemical scale, the burning of paraffin wax gives you CO2 and H2O from what I have read
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Old 09-06-2016, 04:07 PM   #20
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Does it not come down to how pure the paraffin wax is? Purely on a chemical scale, the burning of paraffin wax gives you CO2 and H2O from what I have read
How pure is the paraffin wax that is used for candles?

I know there is a food grade paraffin that is refined to pull out impurities, but I don't think that's the same paraffin wax that is used in candles. If the wax that is used for candles is "pure," then why would there be a "food grade"?


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