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Soap Making Forum > Soapmaking & Candle Recipe & Tutorials Forum > Soap Making Recipes & Tutorials > Castile 95%NaOH 5%KOH calculations help
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Old 09-20-2016, 01:13 PM   #21
Dahila
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Ladies and gents so you separate the water mix lye and koh then put them together in one bowl to add to oils or separately? Very interesting tread
Can any soap be done this way or just high oleic soaps?


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Old 09-20-2016, 02:36 PM   #22
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I don't mix my KOH and NaOH separately. I have used KOH 60%, NaOH 40% for liquid soap mix, so this may be different for solid soap, but I mix my NaOH with the water first, then add the KOH to the hot NaOH/water mixture. Saves a step and a dish.


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Old 09-20-2016, 03:33 PM   #23
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Dahlia, I do my NaOH as a master-batch of 50/50 lye to water & took my NaOH from there as per procedure of measuring masterbatched lye. Then I mixed a 50/50 KOH to water with some of the additional water called for in the recipe. Then I mixed the two lyes together. They heated up. Then I added the remaining water (as per calculations based on the recipe and master-batching protocol.)

I have used the 95%/5% Dual Lye method for several soaps since this first one, and I do like the process. But I am considering making a master-batch of KOH, but have not done so as yet because I don't want to accidentally end up using the wrong solution when I make soap at some time in the future. So then I though maybe I should figure out how to make a master-batch of the Dual Lye solution itself and just make enough for a few batches at a time. So far it is only a thought and I haven't put a lot of time into figuring out how to do the math on the latter.

As to your other question about doing this with soaps other than high oleic ones, I am too new at this method to answer that. In another thread I believe I read that DeeAnna is experimenting with doing the dual lye method with her high-lard soaps.
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Old 09-23-2016, 04:57 AM   #24
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I used it only for 100% avocado oil soap. That oil traced so much faster than olive oil I was shocked. It also lead to slimy soaps with nice lather.
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Old 09-30-2016, 07:10 PM   #25
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I made batches of the 95% NaOH, 5% KOH soap yesterday and today with the following oils:

Lard 65%
Olive Oil 15%
Coconut Oil 15%
Castor Oil 5%

Superfat 5%

The one I made yesterday, I used no sugar. The batch I made today had my standard 0.5 oz/32 oz oil sugar addition. I have plenty of non-dual lye soaps to compare it to, so I will have a good comparison. The batch yesterday took a long time to trace with Cinnamon Candies from WSP, and the batch today with Pear Glace from WSP traced within seconds. It smells great, but is currently sitting in an ice water bath so it does not volcano.
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Old 12-24-2016, 08:11 PM   #26
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Reporting on my impressions of using this soap at 6 months cure with a comparison to 15-month cured Castile. For the younger Castile, I used the pink one, which is 100% OO of the Kirkland brand, which comes from Costco. The older Castile was made with Sam's Club OO because that's what I had on hand (I don't actually live very close to a Costco, but I do live close to Sam's Club.)

I don't have a 6 month young bar of single lye Castile to compare it to, but I do believe my results belie the statement that a 4-6 week cure for dual lye Castile is sufficient to eliminate slime or that has cured enough to be mild.

Other than the lye composition, the amount of water and the addition of micas to the newer soap, the recipes are exactly the same. Olive Oil and water, same 5% SF, both done CP (although at this point I don't think that would matter.)

Single Lye Castile (15 months of age):
Copious large to medium bubbles; absolutely no slime; fairly creamy lather than starts a little slower and takes a bit longer to become creamy, but feels very good on my skin. After washing and rinsing, there seems to be a residual conditioning or nourishing feel to my skin that lasts nicely.
Notes about the bar & recipe: I made this with full water per SoapCalc's default. It is softer, not yet 'rock hard' like the pink bar below.

Dual Lye Castile (95% NaOH + 5% KOH) (6 months of age):
Slightly smaller, but abundant bubbles; copious thick and creamy lather; slime forms when I hold my palm flat on the bar and lift it away, breaking at about 1 to 1.5 inches from the surface as I lift my hand; HOWEVER, this slime goes away when I used the same bar twice and I had a hard time re-creating the slime after the initial one minute of soaping up my hands. After using this 6-month young Dual Lye Castile, my skin feel dryer than I like. Not as mild and not as 'conditioned' or 'nourished' or whatever that feeling is when a soap doesn't leave my hands feeling like they would benefit from some lotion.
Notes about the bar & recipe: I made this with a [40% Lye Concentration] so less water. It is very hard, although it did bow a bit while drying, which the other one did not, but I suspect that has to do with not turning the bar as frequently to prevent bowing.


The temperature of the water seems to make no difference whatsoever on these findings. At first I used warm water. Later I re-tested with cold water accidentally, but it was actually interesting to see that it made no difference. Then I repeated it with warm water again almost immediately. That's when I discovered the slime is harder to 'find' in the dual lye Castile when washing the soap, rinsing the soap and re-washing again right away.

Also of interest, is that when my hands felt dryer than I like after using the dual lye Castile, about 10 minutes later I simply washed again with the 15-month old Castile and my hands feel better again. Odd that.

In any case, I do believe that even if some say you can use a Dual Lye Castile earlier (at 4-6 weeks), I would NOT recommend it. Even at 6 months, it's not anywhere near as mild as it should be in my opinion.
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Old 12-24-2016, 11:39 PM   #27
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Thanks!
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Old 12-27-2016, 05:35 PM   #28
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On another note, I've just started reading the thread, 'Deanna, I have a question....' wherein several members here made a lye heavy Castile recipe shared by AnnaMarie, which produced a very mild and slime-free Castile. Besides the excess lye, the excess water seemed to be extremely important as well. I am only on page 24 of the thread so far, so have not yet reached the long-term reports of the experiment, other than AnnaMarie's which were long-term from the start of the thread. But it leads me to wonder if my dual lye Castile would have benefited more from a higher water content. I used a [40% Lye Concentration] so obviously not a lot of water.

I may try this recipe again with a lot more water and see how it turns out at similar intervals to this one for comparison.
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Old 12-27-2016, 08:21 PM   #29
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Intentional or not Earlene, those are some beautiful soaps.
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Old 12-28-2016, 01:57 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earlene View Post
On another note, I've just started reading the thread, 'Deanna, I have a question....' wherein several members here made a lye heavy Castile recipe shared by AnnaMarie, which produced a very mild and slime-free Castile. Besides the excess lye, the excess water seemed to be extremely important as well. I am only on page 24 of the thread so far, so have not yet reached the long-term reports of the experiment, other than AnnaMarie's which were long-term from the start of the thread. But it leads me to wonder if my dual lye Castile would have benefited more from a higher water content. I used a [40% Lye Concentration] so obviously not a lot of water.

I may try this recipe again with a lot more water and see how it turns out at similar intervals to this one for comparison.
That recipe is pretty tricky. The lye grains out the soap just like salt would. The result is that it won't trace, or you force it by blending and it's still too weepy in the mold. The purpose of the lye excess, even though it will cure out, is unclear. I don't think we have heard of any CP soap being made like that anywhere, at least intentionally.

I don't know if I'll ever have time to try, partly because I don't totally trust that the instructions we have are correct or worthwhile, but I think I know how it could work, in principle. Basically, you don't want the concentration of the caustic in the liquid to be high enough to salt out the soap. You would probably have to add all or most of the water up front, except for the part you use to create a concentrated lye. Then you would add that slowly, allowing time for alkali to be used up before adding more.

What makes me think the instructions are wrong or misleading is that the process would take forever at room temp. That would be better for HP. The amount of excess lye in the recipe could maybe even inevitably cause the soap to separate by the time you get it all in.

The fact to understand in all this is that sodium hydroxide is even more effective at throwing soap out of solution than sodium chloride. From knowing what the fully-boiled soap makers do (or did), I finally realized why that recipe likes to fail. The lye is just too damned strong. Unless you adjust the procedure somehow, it can't work properly.


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