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Soap Making Forum > Soapmaking & Candle Recipe & Tutorials Forum > Soap Making Recipes & Tutorials > Would like a recipe for a simple Castile-like soap that cures fast
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Old 12-31-2016, 03:51 PM   #31
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I agree with The Gent -- moisture loss is NOT the same as curing. There are structural changes in the soap that happen in the soap over time that are not necessarily related just to moisture loss. We've had this discussion before and will again I'm sure, but I doubt my opinion will change because it's based on my experience, not on what is being passed around by bloggers on the internet. There are some things for which time and patience are the solutions, and curing soap is one of them.

This is so easy to check, so there's no excuse for not doing the research yourself. Test the lather of a soap after it's made at 2, 4, 6, and 8 weeks and then for every month for at least a year. Look at ease of lathering, amount of lather, and quality of lather. Evaluate the soap bar for slickness, hardness, etc.

An impatient soaper can get around the cure waiting period by making soap regularly so you get a regular soap-making fix and the soap "pipeline" is filled with soap of varying ages so there's always good soap to use.

***

I want to emphasize that adding a bit of KOH to a high oleic soap recipe does not change the essential nature of the soap. The soap and its lather still have a slick feel and the lather is more dense compared with a coconut oil soap or another freely lathering soap. What the KOH does do is reduce the amount of concentrated oleic gel that forms when the soap meets water -- the added KOH reduces or eliminates the slime/snot that makes an all-NaOH castile so unappealing to many. The lather builds quicker and easier, and you'll see more light, fluffy bubbles rather than mostly a low, dense lather. A 5% KOH high-oleic soap is definitely more pleasant to use at 4-6 weeks of cure than the same soap made with all NaOH.

Is this soap at its best after only 4-6 weeks compared to when it's multiple years old? I don't know. Maybe castile connoisseurs will take up the challenge. What I can say is using 5% KOH makes a high oleic soap a type of soap I might make more of, compared to the all NaOH version.



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Old 12-31-2016, 07:04 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeAnna View Post

I want to emphasize that adding a bit of KOH to a high oleic soap recipe does not change the essential nature of the soap. The soap and its lather still have a slick feel and the lather is more dense compared with a coconut oil soap or another freely lathering soap. What the KOH does do is reduce the amount of concentrated oleic gel that forms when the soap meets water -- the added KOH reduces or eliminates the slime/snot that makes an all-NaOH castile so unappealing to many. The lather builds quicker and easier, and you'll see more light, fluffy bubbles rather than mostly a low, dense lather. A 5% KOH high-oleic soap is definitely more pleasant to use at 4-6 weeks of cure than the same soap made with all NaOH.

Is this soap at its best after only 4-6 weeks compared to when it's multiple years old? I don't know. Maybe castile connoisseurs will take up the challenge. What I can say is using 5% KOH makes a high oleic soap a type of soap I might make more of, compared to the all NaOH version.
The bold above is mine, not DeeAnna's, but it is what I wish to address here.

First, I wish to thank DeeAnna for the Dual Lye tutorial and mention that I used it to create two batches of dual lye Castile soap this past June (2016). One was with pomace OO and one was with regular OO. Both were with [40% Lye Concentration]. So the water loss was greatly reduced right off the bat. I will be making this soap again with more water sometime in the future, but so far that's all I have to report on regarding a dual lye Castile as it compares to a single lye Castile.

You can read my in-depth comparison of the two different types of Castiles here. My single lye Castile (NaOH) was 15 months old compared to the 6 months-young dual lye Castile when I tested them. I did try the young one when it was much younger, but I don't think I posted about that and did not find it any more un-ready than it is right now.

In short, NO, it is not at it's best at 4-6 weeks, because it is not at it's best at 6 months. Not in my current experience. My 15 month Castile (Single Lye and full water) has no snot-slime ropes, while my 6-month dual lye (95% NaOH/5% KOH at 40% Lye) Castile does.

Would it be different if I had made the dual lye Castile with full water? I don't know, as I did not do that.


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Old 01-01-2017, 06:53 PM   #33
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It helps to think of it like beer or wine making. If you have ever had beer or wine served too early, it can range from nasty to semi-drinkable (like the fraternity kids would probably drink it). Leave it be for a while and it will be fabulous. Soap is the same way - DON'T try to rush it. STOP RUSHING THE CURE!!

If you want soap you can use immediately, make liquid soap. Or bath bombs or lotion or lotion bars or bubble bars with SLSA to have something to use.

In the meantime make a batch of soap per week, and yes test the ends to see how it gets better over time.
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Old 01-01-2017, 07:53 PM   #34
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One good way to remove the need for a quick cure is to make a different type of soap a week on rotation, so after the first 4 weeks of waiting, you only have to wait a week for a new soap! If you can't use that much up reasonably quickly, make it every 2 or 4 weeks or whathaveyou - regardless of how often it is, the goal would be to have a batch being cured when you make a new batch so you get some sort of delayed-but-instant gratification
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:07 AM   #35
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Seems there are a few IT/system technology people here. I'm paid big money mainly to tell large corporations and government that their software projects failed because of their quest for big-bang instant gratification. Transformations must be incremental and strategic. What you do today might only impact the bottom line 2, 5, or even 10 years out.
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Old 03-05-2017, 02:25 PM   #36
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I stay away from palm too. I think coconut oil can be used in higher quantities instead of palm but it's more expensive.
Crazy as it sounds a 50/50 olive/coconut recipe produces a lovely soap. Or a 40/25/20/15 olive/coconut/Shea/cocoa butter.
As for cure time I mostly do CPOP. The result is the smooth finish of a CP soap with a harder bar more quickly.
Also if you are an experienced soaper you can do a 1.5/1 water to lye ratio.
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Old 03-06-2017, 11:49 AM   #37
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CPOP does not shorten the cure time, it causes that saponification to happen more quickly. Cure is time for water/liquid evaporation and other chemisty things happening. Soap requires 4-6 weeks to cure period. Some longer.
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Old 03-13-2017, 09:32 PM   #38
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Yes, I know but I get a much better results with CPOP. Colours are brighter. Never had soda ash from it. The best for me is never having to wait more than a day to unmold.
Also, if using a huge water discount or/and high amount of coconut oil I don't need to leave any more than 1 week for a hard bar.
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Old 03-13-2017, 10:04 PM   #39
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Quote:
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Yes, I know but I get a much better results with CPOP. Colours are brighter. Never had soda ash from it. The best for me is never having to wait more than a day to unmold.

Also, if using a huge water discount or/and high amount of coconut oil I don't need to leave any more than 1 week for a hard bar.

Hard soap doesn't mean cured soap. Also, CO is not a substitute for palm. Lard and tallow are replacement/subs. The more CO you have the more quickly the soap dissolves. If you're just looking for hard soap then I suppose you're good. Not necessarily a quality soap. Also a very cleansing soap. There is much more going on in soap than hardness with a good cure. 4-6 weeks is a must for me. Regardless of how little liquid used. 50% or more OO and it gets a longer cure. It's all about quality for me and my customers. My soaps are hard when I unmold them but not cured.
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:03 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexanderte View Post
Title says it all. I’m into very simple things, and I would like the simplest soap that doesn’t need more than 4–6 weeks of curing. Do anyone have a recipe to share? ... No animal oils, no colors, no fragrances – maybe with the exception of a dash of EO. ... I only do CP. Would be helpful with lye concentration, and anything related to temperature that I should be aware of. What are my options?
Hi Alex,
I hear you! Except for the animal fats, you just described ME when I first started soaping! I wanted a 100% olive oil soap so much, but, once made, I couldn't stand the icky slime it produced when lathering up. Not only did I have to wait (a week?) to unmold, but 3 months before i could use it! UGH. I didn't have the advantage you have of getting excellent advice from all the lovely and generous people in this group.

But I digress. (1) I recently discovered a trick to get "No Slime Quick Cure" Castile that's hard enough to ship in two weeks (altho longer cure is better), that has the smooth texture of triple-milled French soaps. (2) Is something I developed for a soaping buddy by request during my early days of making transparent soaps. It's basically a rebatch with glycerin & water. Contact me off list if interested.

EMAIL: zanypole@yahoo.com


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