Soaping 101 liquid soapmaking video?

[10/13/2016 Edited to add that I now mix my KOH /glycerin differently than the above. I dissolve the KOH in an equal amount of room temp. distilled water and then add the normal/full complement of (room temp.) glycerin to the lye solution. Doing it this this way makes it so much easier/less fussy to dissolve the KOH. Instead of taking 8 to 10 minutes of cooking in boiling glycerin for the KOH to dissolve, it only takes as little as a minute, and no heating is required. Of course, doing it this updated way changes my dilution ratio because I have to account for the extra water I'm adding up front, but, no worries- I've got that figured out: my new dilution ratio is 1 part paste to .62 parts distilled water, instead of 1 part paste to .75 parts distilled water]

Hi, I've made 3 batches of liquid soap and the first one was adding the KOH to hot glycerin. Before everyone attacks me, let me explain why I did it that way my very first time. The above quote from Irish Lass says that her revised way is easier/less fussy. It doesn't say 'do it this way or you might burn your house down or die from inhaling chemical fumes.' Again, please don't attack me - let me finish explaining.

So when I first read the revision I thought to myself okay it's less fussy and easier to do it the new revised way, but I want to learn the process from beginning to end so let me take the same route IL did. The OTHER reason I heated my glycerin is because of the dilution change in the above quote. The part that says:
"Of course, doing it this updated way changes my dilution ratio because I have to account for the extra water I'm adding up front, but, no worries- I've got that figured out: my new dilution ratio is 1 part paste to .62 parts distilled water, instead of 1 part paste to .75 parts distilled water"

That ^^^ that dilution part of the revision had my head spinning. That sounded like an incredibly complicated and over-my-head matte. Little did I know my very FIRST time that dilution is not a set ratio and can be done hundreds of different ways, some that don't even require heat, you just put the paste in a jar with a little water and let it do its thing and a lot it is just plain old personal preference.

See I didn't know anything about making soap so when I read part one of IL revision and then to part two of IL revision, and you can't do one revision without the additional revision, I said to myself -- just do it the way it was written the first time. So that's why I did what I did - and maybe - just maybe - that is why so many other newbies are heating the glycerin and adding the KOH to hot glycerin.

So please understand I come in peace, I am a newbie, I did use hot glycerin while adding my KOH the first time, but now I hope you understand the reason why.

If you still don't understand, and you still insist on pointing fingers and being critical instead of supportive, just know that I really was trying to learn. Which is what this forum is about, right?

Peace Out!

CassieLouisa said:

[10/13/2016 Edited to add that I now mix my KOH /glycerin differently than the above. I dissolve the KOH in an equal amount of room temp. distilled water and then add the normal/full complement of (room temp.) glycerin to the lye solution. Doing it this this way makes it so much easier/less fussy to dissolve the KOH. Instead of taking 8 to 10 minutes of cooking in boiling glycerin for the KOH to dissolve, it only takes as little as a minute, and no heating is required. Of course, doing it this updated way changes my dilution ratio because I have to account for the extra water I'm adding up front, but, no worries- I've got that figured out: my new dilution ratio is 1 part paste to .62 parts distilled water, instead of 1 part paste to .75 parts distilled water]

Hi, I've made 3 batches of liquid soap and the first one was adding the KOH to hot glycerin. Before everyone attacks me, let me explain why I did it that way my very first time. The above quote from Irish Lass says that her revised way is easier/less fussy. It doesn't say 'do it this way or you might burn your house down or die from inhaling chemical fumes.' Again, please don't attack me - let me finish explaining.

So when I first read the revision I thought to myself okay it's less fussy and easier to do it the new revised way, but I want to learn the process from beginning to end so let me take the same route IL did. The OTHER reason I heated my glycerin is because of the dilution change in the above quote. The part that says:
"Of course, doing it this updated way changes my dilution ratio because I have to account for the extra water I'm adding up front, but, no worries- I've got that figured out: my new dilution ratio is 1 part paste to .62 parts distilled water, instead of 1 part paste to .75 parts distilled water"

That ^^^ that dilution part of the revision had my head spinning. That sounded like an incredibly complicated and over-my-head matte. Little did I know my very FIRST time that dilution is not a set ratio and can be done hundreds of different ways, some that don't even require heat, you just put the paste in a jar with a little water and let it do its thing and a lot it is just plain old personal preference.

See I didn't know anything about making soap so when I read part one of IL revision and then to part two of IL revision, and you can't do one revision without the additional revision, I said to myself -- just do it the way it was written the first time. So that's why I did what I did - and maybe - just maybe - that is why so many other newbies are heating the glycerin and adding the KOH to hot glycerin.

So please understand I come in peace, I am a newbie, I did use hot glycerin while adding my KOH the first time, but now I hope you understand the reason why.

If you still don't understand, and you still insist on pointing fingers and being critical instead of supportive, just know that I really was trying to learn. Which is what this forum is about, right?

Peace Out!

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I understand that. And I am replying in peace. I just want you to understand where we are coming from.

We are strongly trying to encourage everyone to try the revised method rather than the original. After all, when we know better, we do better. (paraphrased Maya Angelou) And we try hard to give you newbies the best information on the best recipes/methods that we can. Then a whole bunch of you go and use the original. It makes us frustrated. And if I could remove that video from YouTube, I would, I assure you.

"...you still insist on pointing fingers and being critical instead of supportive..."

I'm pretty sure the "you" you're pointing a finger at is me, so I'm making another attempt to defuse this matter.

For the record, there have been about four individuals relatively new to SMF and new to liquid soap making who have reported doing the "hot glycerin" method in the past few weeks. That's a fair number of LS newbies who have decided to use this technique in a relatively short time. A full read of this particular thread will show the majority of soapers making LS are currently using the "dissolve KOH in water" method. It has puzzled and worried me to see this apparent shift by LS newbies away from this method. This is the gist of what I was trying to say in Post 723.

My concerns about this matter were brought to a high level specifically when I read the report in Post 701. Brown glycerin is decomposing glycerin and decomposing glycerin produces chemicals that are volatile, toxic, and irritating to the respiratory system. And when a person is hanging her nose over a pan of hot decomposing glycerin, she is exposing herself very thoroughly, if unwittingly, to inhaling these toxic, irritating chemicals.

I put safety pretty high on the list of things that are important to me, and one of my goals as a member of SMF is to educate people about safety. I am an engineer with experience in the chemical industry. In some cases I've had to work around chemicals that would kill or disable a person with just one whiff, so I'm aware of hazards that other people don't know about or choose to disregard. If I see soapers doing things that could injure their health, I will speak up and express my concerns.

If my interest in keeping people safe and healthy does not sound sufficiently supportive, I can live with that. I can't live with the idea of not saying anything and later hearing that someone has been hurt.

DeeAnna said:

"...you still insist on pointing fingers and being critical instead of supportive..."

I'm pretty sure the "you" you're pointing a finger at is me, so I'm making another attempt to defuse this matter.

For the record, there have been about four individuals relatively new to SMF and new to liquid soap making who have reported doing the "hot glycerin" method in the past few weeks. That's a fair number of LS newbies who have decided to use this technique in a relatively short time. A full read of this particular thread will show the majority of soapers making LS are currently using the "dissolve KOH in water" method. It has puzzled and worried me to see this apparent shift by LS newbies away from this method. This is the gist of what I was trying to say in Post 723.

My concerns about this matter were brought to a high level specifically when I read the report in Post 701. Brown glycerin is decomposing glycerin and decomposing glycerin produces chemicals that are volatile, toxic, and irritating to the respiratory system. And when a person is hanging her nose over a pan of hot decomposing glycerin, she is exposing herself very thoroughly, if unwittingly, to inhaling these toxic, irritating chemicals.

I put safety pretty high on the list of things that are important to me, and one of my goals as a member of SMF is to educate people about safety. I am an engineer with experience in the chemical industry. In some cases I've had to work around chemicals that would kill or disable a person with just one whiff, so I'm aware of hazards that other people don't know about or choose to disregard. If I see soapers doing things that could injure their health, I will speak up and express my concerns.

If my interest in keeping people safe and healthy does not sound sufficiently supportive, I can live with that. I can't live with the idea of not saying anything and later hearing that someone has been hurt.

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^^^^This!

Well that was an interesting experience LOL.

I think I mixed my ingredients too cool, as I stick-blended for 15 minutes and my 'paste' remained liquid. I left it alone for a couple hours, saw separation, blended again. A couple hours later, I check again and it was thickening nicely but with a large pool of liquid on top - more separation!

As a last ditch effort, I set my bowl into a simmering pot of water and broke it up and mixed it with a spoon. It re-liquidized nicely, but it seemed like there were tons of little (and some big) chunks of transparent stuff - perhaps glycerin?

Anyway, after I did that, it became a nice taffy consistency, although still chunky. I left it alone overnight and no more separation this morning and no zap.

I'll proceed with dilution and hope that the stickblender will break up those translucent chunks. I'll report back! And keep the temperatures higher initially next time.

Ive never tried this method before, it sounds great!
Do you completely avoid insolubles this way? Cause I hate them. Any recommendations on how to get rid of them?
Can you use any combo of oils to achieve this as long as you do glycerin and KOH?

I was thinking...
Coconut oil 65%
Olive oil 20%
Soybean oil 13%
Sweet Almond oil 2%

Cheers!

I tried yesterday a 50:50 water and glycerine. I dissolve my koh to my 50% water and I add my glycerine to my oil. I love it and after 3 hours no zap anymore but I wait 8 hours before I diluted the paste. I add rosin and very nice amber colour soap.

Coconut oil 65%
Olive oil 20%
Soybean oil 13%
Sweet Almond oil 2%

You could make that soap, but if you want a honey-thick soap, you won't get it using 65% coconut oil unless you use a separate thickener that doesn't depend on the soap itself for thickening. Just dilution is unlikely to work. Salt very likely will also not do anything much for thickening with that much CO.

2% sweet almond oil is not useful. Use at least 5% or more of most soaping fats or don't bother (unless you're trying to use up dribs and drabs). There are a few exceptions of fats that are useful at under 5%, but almond oil isn't one of them.

I strongly recommend you use Irish Lass recipe of 65% olive, 25% CO, and 10% castor, at least for your first recipe. It's a tried and true formula and if you have problems, you will get good advice due to our familiarity with this particular recipe. Get used to diluting this soap, get used to the thickness of this particular soap, get used to how it lathers and feels on your skin. Then try a new recipe and build on your experience.

Do you completely avoid insolubles this way?

No, you can't. Think about it -- why would insoluble material disappear simply because you use some glycerin as part of the "water" phase? The glycerin is used as an accelerant for the saponification reaction.

And ... please do NOT use the "dissolve the KOH in hot glycerin" method. There is a high risk in this method for no benefit. Dissolve your KOH in an equal weight or more of water. And then add sufficient glycerin and/or additional water until the total equals your desired total 'water" weight. Two parts glycerin to one of water or even one part glycerin to 2 of water will give you plenty of acceleration and minimize the safety risk.

Any recommendations on how to get rid of them?

Simple. Don't use fats or other ingredients with insoluble components in them. To some extent, it's impossible to completely eliminate insoluble chemicals, but you can minimize the problem. Your best bet is to avoid fats that are known to have high unsaponifiable content -- avocado, jojoba, and shea being several prime examples. Also avoid fats high in stearic and palmitic acid -- palm, lard, tallow, the butters (cocoa, mango, shea, etc.) to avoid cloudiness from the stearic and palmitic soaps. And minimize the superfat -- 3% is about as high as one can typically go and not have separation or cloudiness.

Can you use any combo of oils to achieve this as long as you do glycerin and KOH?

If you want a clear soap, the answer is no. See my previous answers. That said, you can theoretically make LS with ANY blend of fats but the type of soap you'll end up with may not be what you want -- it may be very thin, it may be cloudy, it may not lather well or at all, etc.

You'll have better results making a LS using a recipe with a high % of high oleic oils to get a thicker product and also a relatively high % of coconut or other "bubbly" fats to get decent lather. Many people also use some castor, again to boost bubbles and encourage transparency. All three of these fats will typically make a clear amber soap.

Ahhhh, thank you so much!

Thank you for your wonderful feed back. Ill give it a try and see how it goes. I wish I had only found all this information sooner!

Thank you for the suggestions. I made a new batch and it turned out perfectly!

Woohoo, it worked!

Congratulations!

WOO HOO! Well done!

Congrats

Here is my first attempt - does this look right? It is taffy like consistency -but not translucent and pretty light in colour. I used the original recipe as posted by Irishlass...... It doesn't zap so I think I'm good to dilute???

Also - Irishlass and those that whisk by hand - my goodness you must get your workout in when doing it. Even my stick blender was beginning to complain and getting hot in my hand!

That looks perfect! Assuming you used IrishLass' recipe, you have simply mixed air in there.

And the dilution!

I have to say it makes my skin feel a little tight but still happy with the results!! Now if I want to dilute this further for a foamer bottle... just add more distilled H2O? And I'm assuming I would scent based on weight of the final dillition (not this one?)

Kmyny said:

Here is my first attempt - does this look right? It is taffy like consistency -but not translucent and pretty light in colour. I used the original recipe as posted by Irishlass...... It doesn't zap so I think I'm good to dilute???

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Your paste looks beautiful. It is ready to dilute as long as it does not zap. Don't worry that the paste is not translucent. I don't know if you were able to read through the entirety of this thread or not, but I mention in one of my subsequent posts somewhere in this vast thread that it's okay if your paste is not translucent. I should probably add an edit about that in my post #8.

Kmyny said:

Also - Irishlass and those that whisk by hand - my goodness you must get your workout in when doing it. Even my stick blender was beginning to complain and getting hot in my hand!

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I only whisk until my batter looks like it is emulsified (i.e., very light trace if you are familiar with making CP), or until I see flying bubbles.....whichever come first ....which doesn't take any more than 8 - 10 minutes- not much of a workout at all. I think I get more of a workout when making pudding from scratch. lol If I whisked until my batter turned into paste, that would be a different story, no doubt, but I don't whisk until my batter turns into paste like 3bees~1flower does in her video. My batter is still quite liquid when I cover my soaping pot and walk away and let it do the workout of turning into paste on its own.

Kmyny said:

I have to say it makes my skin feel a little tight but still happy with the results!! Now if I want to dilute this further for a foamer bottle... just add more distilled H2O? And I'm assuming I would scent based on weight of the final dillition (not this one?)

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If your skin feels tight, you can always sequester the paste for a week before diluting and see if that helps. Or you can add a little extra oil to the finished dilution (superfat) along with some PS80 to solubize it into the mix.

I've never added mine to foamer bottles, but I believe Susie does. Hopefully she will chime in on that.

Re: scent- I add scent based on the weight of my fully diluted soap.

IrishLass

Yes, you add additional distilled water. I usually double my weight of diluted soap, then it always takes a little more, but you have to tweak it based on your foamers. The ones I have in my house (that is 4 hours from where I am living) take an additional 1 oz per 8 oz double diluted soap, the ones here take an additional 2 oz. You are just going to have to play with it. My best advice is just to dilute for one foamer until you get the proper amount.

IrishLass said:

Your paste looks beautiful. It is ready to dilute as long as it does not zap. Don't worry that the paste is not translucent. I don't know if you were able to read through the entirety of this thread or not, but I mention in one of my subsequent posts somewhere in this vast thread that it's okay if your paste is not translucent. I should probably add an edit about that in my post #8.



I only whisk until my batter looks like it is emulsified (i.e., very light trace if you are familiar with making CP), or until I see flying bubbles.....whichever come first ....which doesn't take any more than 8 - 10 minutes- not much of a workout at all. I think I get more of a workout when making pudding from scratch. lol If I whisked until my batter turned into paste, that would be a different story, no doubt, but I don't whisk until my batter turns into paste like 3bees~1flower does in her video. My batter is still quite liquid when I cover my soaping pot and walk away and let it do the workout of turning into paste on its own.



If your skin feels tight, you can always sequester the paste for a week before diluting and see if that helps. Or you can add a little extra oil to the finished dilution (superfat) along with some PS80 to solubize it into the mix.

IrishLass

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I have read through the first 25 pages of this thread, but mostly late a night when the littles are all asleep - Im sure I saw it somewhere (now that you mention your paste isn't always translucent).

And yes, Thanks for confirming my thoughts! - I was thinking of leaving the paste to sit a little more and if it still feels a little tight I will try adding additional oil