Cleansing properties of Coconut vs Palm Kernel vs Babassu

topofmurrayhill · Apr 19, 2015

doriettefarm said:
I googled but couldn't find much info about the specific amounts of capric and caprylic acids in different oils. However, I did find one and it seems to confirm what DeeAnna is saying about CO having almost twice the amount as babassu (see chart on pg 295).[/URL]

That'll teach me to speak from memory. Several years ago I researched exactly this for the oils database that's part of my lye calculator. For coconut oil I took the mean of the ranges from the following document, those being 7% caprylic and 8% capric, for 15% total.

Fatty Acids and Derivatives from Coconut Oil
http://innoleague.com/Coconut oil and derivates.pdf

For babassu I had similar numbers but I don't recall how I got them, so I looked up a few sources now:

The Fatty Acids and Glycerides of Babassu Oil
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02568011

In close agreement (Table 3) is:

A Comparison of the Physicochemical Properties and Fatty Acid Composition of Indaiá (Attalea dubia) and Babassu (Orbignya phalerata) Oils
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3347479/

So, as in other respects, the two oils are the same. PKO is lower, which is one of the reasons I like it.

ETA bold-face titles.

topofmurrayhill · Apr 19, 2015

Vkumudini said:
One major difference among these three oils is that CO has almost zero vit.E while PKO has 3.8% and babassu oil a whopping 19.1%. Don't know if that actually makes any difference in soaping. Just thought I would bring that up to see if our experts have anything to say. My source is the nutritiondata.self.com

They say 19.1 mg / 100 g, or about .02%. That has some significance for eating, but according to Kevin Dunn's DOS experiments, no significance for soaping (he used 5 times as much).

kumudini · Apr 19, 2015

topofmurrayhill said:
They say 19.1 mg / 100 g, or about .02%. That has some significance for eating, but according to Kevin Dunn's DOS experiments, no significance for soaping (he used 5 times as much).

you r right, my mistake:sad:

Soap Techniques · Apr 20, 2015

DeeAnna said:
It might be the difference in the amounts of the very short, saturated fatty acids that SoapCalc doesn't consider -- the caprylic and capric acids. The shortest fatty acids that Soapcalc considers are lauric acid (12 carbon atoms long) and myristic (14 carbon atoms long). Some fats used for soaping contain fatty acids are shorter yet. These include the butyric (4 carbon) and caproic (6 carbon) acids found in butterfat and the caprylic (8 carbon) and capric (10 carbon) acids found in coconut, palm kernel, and babassu.

These short fatty acids -- from butyric to myristic -- when turned into soap are able to bind to and remove protective proteins and fats in the non-living surface layer of the skin. This can cause increasing dryness, irritation, and even dermatitis. Sensitive, dry, or injured skin will show the effects most easily, but even normal skin can become irritated, especially after repeated use.

Here is some data to support this:

source: Cosmetic Formulation of Skin Care Products, by Zoe Diana Draelo, page 44

I wish I could find such information regarding polyunsaturated fatty acids. :?

kumudini · Apr 20, 2015

Fata Morgana said:
Here is some data to support this:

source: Cosmetic Formulation of Skin Care Products, by Zoe Diana Draelo, page 44

I wish I could find such information regarding polyunsaturated fatty acids. :?

I wonder how they define soap reactiveness? Based on their history or tested with a standard soap if so what is that standard recipe? In any case the chart explains so many things. It would be wonderful if there was a similar study on whole babassu oil and Palm kernel oil. Btw, that's one expensive book. May be you could name the reference study here?

Soap Techniques · Apr 20, 2015

Vkumudini said:
May be you could name the reference study here?

here it is:

41. Blank IH. Action of soap on skin. Arch Derm Syph 1939; 39:811–824.

DeeAnna · Apr 20, 2015

Thanks for the info, Fata. Muchly appreciated!!!

Chefmom · Apr 26, 2015

You know....you guys are all just a bunch of enablers!!!

Now I want to buy all those oils.....fractionated coconut, babassu, and palm kernel oil and just play with percentages to see for myself..

My theory is you just never know until you have the bubbles in your own hands!

not_ally · Apr 26, 2015

The soap calc numbers are somewhat problematic. I always run them just to see what they say, but there is a pretty wide gap for me. I only make soaps for myself - the giftees just have to live with the ones I like - but it varies so much depending on what a given person needs. Which is why there is no universal hand made soap juggernaut company, I guess. Unless you are Lush and are super smart about marketing.

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