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beefree

beefree

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Joined
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Hi all, I am really new to HP soap. I have a question I have made a few batches now but this last batch is quite soft, made 2 days ago and it feels very drying on my hands.

My recipe for 1lb batch
2.1o oz lye
6.08 oz water
1,28 oz castor oil
4 oz coconut oil
2.72 Crisco
8 oz olive oil

I am not sure what I have done wrong here, it has less coconut oil than the previous batch. I waited till it looked like Vaseline. IS it possible it did not cook all the way or is lye heavy?
Any help would be appreciated

sorry 2.19 oz lye
 
I haven't made any soap yet but from what I've learned on here the drying process needs to be atleast 4 weeks long.
 
The recipe looks okay as far as not too much lye. Did you zap test the soap to see if it's accidentally lye heavy? If not, here's a fast, safe way to do it -- http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=63199

The zap test will tell you if the soap contains too much NaOH. If it's zap free, you're good.

The other issue is your soap is only 2 days old. Many soap recipes are going to be "meh" to "okay" when the soap is that young. It's always better if you let the soap cure for about 4 weeks before deciding if your skin likes it or not. And, yes, that's true for HP soap as much as it is for CP soap.
 
DeeAnna said:
The recipe looks okay as far as not too much lye. Did you zap test the soap to see if it's accidentally lye heavy? If not, here's a fast, safe way to do it -- http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=63199

The zap test will tell you if the soap contains too much NaOH. If it's zap free, you're good.

The other issue is your soap is only 2 days old. Many soap recipes are going to be "meh" to "okay" when the soap is that young. It's always better if you let the soap cure for about 4 weeks before deciding if your skin likes it or not. And, yes, that's true for HP soap as much as it is for CP soap.
Click to expand...

Thank you, guess I will have to zap it, blah no ph strips. Bummer thought we could use the soap 24 hr after, but it does make sense. Thank you for your advice. :)

UGH!!! ITS NOT HEAVY!, I guess I was just impatient.......and got a soapy tongue for my efforts! Man just saw on news Tom Petty just died :( sorry know its totally soap unrelated
 
beefree said:
Thank you, guess I will have to zap it, blah no ph strips. Bummer thought we could use the soap 24 hr after, but it does make sense. Thank you for your advice. :)
Click to expand...
Tom Petty has been brain dead and off his life support for atleast 24hrs. Sadly, it was bound to happen. I cried when my dad told me about it.
 
beefree said:
UGH!!! ITS NOT HEAVY!, I guess I was just impatient.......and got a soapy tongue for my efforts! Man just saw on news Tom Petty just died :( sorry know its totally soap unrelated
Click to expand...

I think most of us are impatient with the first few batches. It's so hard to wait. It also doesn't help that the misconception that HP soap doesn't need to cure is hanging on quite tenaciously. Once you've got a batch or two actually cured, it gets easier. In the mean time, slice a bar into pieces, and try a piece a week so you can track how the soap changes as it matures. It changes a LOT.
 
lol I am impatient too. Your recipe IMO is higher in olive oil, and still with hot process, olive oil needs longer curing time, and it will become like a rock in 4 weeks. Or at least that is my personal experience.

Also the only time I used Crisco, it gave me that soft feeling in the beginning but got better with time. Not my favorite thing to use. But it does give you a creamy soap.
 
beefree said:
Thank you, guess I will have to zap it, blah no ph strips. Bummer thought we could use the soap 24 hr after, but it does make sense. Thank you for your advice. :)
Click to expand...

Soap is safe to use after it's completely saponified (this is true even for CP and all HP does, is force saponification)
However, to get a good, mild soap, time is always the best.
Think if it as a good cheese or fine wine, the longer it ages/cures, the better it's going to be...

Also, for soap, pH strips are notoriously inaccurate, and won't tell you much about your soap that you don't already know. They will tell you the range the pH of your soap, which for CP/HP soaps, is anywhere from 9-11 - and that's exactly what the strips will most likely tell you.
They will not tell you if your soap is lye heavy, have pockets of lye, etc.,
A simple fast zap test is the quickest, cheapest, most accurate way to test for that.

KattChaos said:
Originally Posted by beefree View Post
Thank you, guess I will have to zap it, blah no ph strips. Bummer thought we could use the soap 24 hr after, but it does make sense. Thank you for your advice.
------
Tom Petty has been brain dead and off his life support for atleast 24hrs. Sadly, it was bound to happen. I cried when my dad told me about it.
Click to expand...

KattChaos - I think you were replying to the wrong thread - but you are right, it's incredibly sad and his passing was confirmed at about 10pm EST Monday night.
 
SunRiseArts said:
lol I am impatient too. Your recipe IMO is higher in olive oil, and still with hot process, olive oil needs longer curing time, and it will become like a rock in 4 weeks. Or at least that is my personal experience.

Also the only time I used Crisco, it gave me that soft feeling in the beginning but got better with time. Not my favorite thing to use. But it does give you a creamy soap.
Click to expand...

Hi, Yeah it is pretty high in Olive oil, but I am ok with that as long as I didn't over superfat it. Being pretty limited with my oils currently I call all these practice batches "Work with what you have recipes" :)
I have found though that the original recipe with a pretty high amount of Crisco has turned out to be a pretty nice bar, does need more lather though, so if I fiddle with the recipe again I may boost the castor up between 7-10%.

When I used to soap I would make Castille, good grief I thought I totally messed it up, it took forever! Somewhere along 6 months for the finished product but people loved it. Since then I have realized this is normal. I'd like to get a few batches of that going, possibly doing HP, still have a long wait though.

What are your preferred oils? If I may ask. Coconut I have to be careful with. My skin tends to be fussy and I end up looking like I have elephant skin, doesn't seem to bother anyone else though who used the same batch.
 
beefree said:
Hi, Yeah it is pretty high in Olive oil, but I am ok with that as long as I didn't over superfat it. Being pretty limited with my oils currently I call all these practice batches "Work with what you have recipes" :)
I have found though that the original recipe with a pretty high amount of Crisco has turned out to be a pretty nice bar, does need more lather though, so if I fiddle with the recipe again I may boost the castor up between 7-10%.

When I used to soap I would make Castille, good grief I thought I totally messed it up, it took forever! Somewhere along 6 months for the finished product but people loved it. Since then I have realized this is normal. I'd like to get a few batches of that going, possibly doing HP, still have a long wait though.

What are your preferred oils? If I may ask. Coconut I have to be careful with. My skin tends to be fussy and I end up looking like I have elephant skin, doesn't seem to bother anyone else though who used the same batch.
Click to expand...

Castor will only boost the bubbles but too much can make your soap sticky. I've never gone higher than 7%

The best soap is Lard, CO, (Olive,Avocado or HO Sunflower)and Castor sometimes Shea butter. I played with a multitude of different oils, butters additives and like simple soap the best.

As stated before, HP does not cure faster than CP and in fact may require a longer cure due to the additional water/liquid required to make it.
 
beefree said:
What are your preferred oils? If I may ask. Coconut I have to be careful with. My skin tends to be fussy and I end up looking like I have elephant skin, doesn't seem to bother anyone else though who used the same batch.
Click to expand...

I make a handful of different formulas, and my main, "don't-ever-like-to-be-without" staples are olive oil, castor oil, avocado oil, coconut oil, PKO flakes, lard, tallow, kokum butter, cocoa butter and mango butter.

Coconut doesn't bother me or my family and friends to whom I gift my soap. My two main formulas contain it at a percentage that I know would probably make some on the forum start to itch just thinking about it (28% and 31.5% respectively.... and I also use it at 100% with a high superfat)........ but if you like bubbly lather and don't do well with coconut oil, there's a wonderful recipe on the forum posted by Genny that uses none of the typical bubbly oils such as coconut oil or PKO, but it miraculously produces lots of lovely bubbly lather nonetheless.

Genny formulated it to be a shampoo bar, but lots of folks on the forum found that it makes for a wonderfully bubbly, yet gentle body bar.

I myself make a tweak of it using high-oleic safflower oil instead of her soy oil, and I like it so much that I completely dropped 100% OO Castiles from my 'gentle soap' category in my soapy repertoire and replaced it with my tweak of Genny's recipe. It doesn't cure out as super hard as a Castile, but it's just as gentle, and best yet- the lather is faaaaaar superior (it bubbles right up and there's no slimy goop to contend with).


Ditto what the other's have said about HP needing just as long, if not a longer cure (because of the extra water) as CP. Here's a great post by our DeeAnna on what goes on in a soap during cure:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=35831&page=2


IrishLass :)
 
IrishLass said:
there's a wonderful recipe on the forum posted by Genny that uses none of the typical bubbly oils such as coconut oil or PKO, but it miraculously produces lots of lovely bubbly lather nonetheless.
IrishLass :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for reminding us of Genny's recipe IL, I have been meaning to try that for a while. Would lard replace the Shea butter tolerably in this recipe?
 
IrishLass said:
I make a handful of different formulas, and my main, "don't-ever-like-to-be-without" staples are olive oil, castor oil, avocado oil, coconut oil, PKO flakes, lard, tallow, kokum butter, cocoa butter and mango butter.

Coconut doesn't bother me or my family and friends to whom I gift my soap. My two main formulas contain it at a percentage that I know would probably make some on the forum start to itch just thinking about it (28% and 31.5% respectively.... and I also use it at 100% with a high superfat)........ but if you like bubbly lather and don't do well with coconut oil, there's a wonderful recipe on the forum posted by Genny that uses none of the typical bubbly oils such as coconut oil or PKO, but it miraculously produces lots of lovely bubbly lather nonetheless.
Genny formulated it to be a shampoo bar, but lots of folks on the forum found that it makes for a wonderfully bubbly, yet gentle body bar.

I myself make a tweak of it using high-oleic safflower oil instead of her soy oil, and I like it so much that I completely dropped 100% OO Castiles from my 'gentle soap' category in my soapy repertoire and replaced it with my tweak of Genny's recipe. It doesn't cure out as super hard as a Castile, but it's just as gentle, and best yet- the lather is faaaaaar superior (it bubbles right up and there's no slimy goop to contend with).


Ditto what the other's have said about HP needing just as long, if not a longer cure (because of the extra water) as CP. Here's a great post by our DeeAnna on what goes on in a soap during cure:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=35831&page=2


IrishLass :)
Click to expand...

Wow!! That sounds fabulous!! I will most certainly check it out. AS for the HP, sorry for the misunderstanding on it. It seems like most of the material I have seen said good after 24hr, but best after several weeks.......Definite point taken. Thank you for the wealth of information IrishLass and everyone. There is so much to digest on this forum :)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:
As this is the second time I've seen you mention it, I have to point out that hp doesn't actually reduce the cure time. You are moulding up fully saponified soap, of course, but the need for a cure is very much still there
Click to expand...

Hi, I'm sorry for misunderstanding the info I have been reading and thank you for pointing it out. I find it interesting though, that within a few days one of my soaps was quite nice to use, could use more cure time to harden more. Then a total contrast with another batch which was quite unpleasant. Well it's all about learning, and I thank you for your part in it. :) Happy day
 
beefree said:
Wow!! That sounds fabulous!! I will most certainly check it out. AS for the HP, sorry for the misunderstanding on it. It seems like most of the material I have seen said good after 24hr, but best after several weeks.......Definite point taken. Thank you for the wealth of information IrishLass and everyone. There is so much to digest on this forum :)
Click to expand...

No apologies needed for the misunderstanding. :) The internet is quite rife with the "HP shorter cure" myth, oft perpetuated by many with not a whole lot of real soaping experience/knowledge, but a whole lot of $$$ signs in their eyes looking for a shortcut to a quick buck. Many newbies to HP unwittingly get ensnared by the misinformation. If it makes you feel better, you are most definitely not the first to be ensnared, and as everyone here can tell you- you most assuredly won't be the last. lol


IrishLass :)
 
beefree said:
Hi, Yeah it is pretty high in Olive oil, but I am ok with that as long as I didn't over superfat it. Being pretty limited with my oils currently I call all these practice batches "Work with what you have recipes" :)
I have found though that the original recipe with a pretty high amount of Crisco has turned out to be a pretty nice bar, does need more lather though, so if I fiddle with the recipe again I may boost the castor up between 7-10%.

When I used to soap I would make Castille, good grief I thought I totally messed it up, it took forever! Somewhere along 6 months for the finished product but people loved it. Since then I have realized this is normal. I'd like to get a few batches of that going, possibly doing HP, still have a long wait though.

What are your preferred oils? If I may ask. Coconut I have to be careful with. My skin tends to be fussy and I end up looking like I have elephant skin, doesn't seem to bother anyone else though who used the same batch.
Click to expand...


as I understand it castor oil will not give you bubbles. Is a bubble booster :)

Bubbles mainly come from coconut oil, and I am sure there are others that give you good bubbles. I think palm kernel does, but need to check.
 
Kittish said:
I think most of us are impatient with the first few batches. It's so hard to wait. It also doesn't help that the misconception that HP soap doesn't need to cure is hanging on quite tenaciously. Once you've got a batch or two actually cured, it gets easier. In the mean time, slice a bar into pieces, and try a piece a week so you can track how the soap changes as it matures. It changes a LOT.
Click to expand...

Thank you, that is great advice! I have been doing that with the first two batches I have made, and both are different on the time it is taking to cure, two different recipes. So this to me is a good experiment. I think that I will do it with each batch and keep a record of it. So far I am on batch 4. This newest one has me on pins and needles. Tried it 2 days after, Definitely needed more time. It is a recipe I hope turns out to be a good one.
 
beefree said:
Thank you, that is great advice! I have been doing that with the first two batches I have made, and both are different on the time it is taking to cure, two different recipes. So this to me is a good experiment. I think that I will do it with each batch and keep a record of it. So far I am on batch 4. This newest one has me on pins and needles. Tried it 2 days after, Definitely needed more time. It is a recipe I hope turns out to be a good one.
Click to expand...

A big thing that will affect how long each soap needs to cure is how much liquid you use in the batch. More water/milk/yogurt/puree/etc = longer time needed to cure.

Oh, and if you aren't already, keep notes! Keep lots of notes for every batch, and update them each time you try it. I started with my very first batch.

My first binder is steadily filling up, with the printed out recipe that includes my notes on how much of each thing actually went into the soap, including add ins, colorants and fragrance, how long it took to firm up enough to cut, and how it is to use for each batch of soap I've made (I'm still new enough at this that I'm trying a bar of every batch- soaps lined up for days along the back of my kitchen sink). I also include photos of every batch, so that a year or more down the road I won't find a lone bar of soap kicking around and have no freakin' clue what batch it's from. If (*knock wood it takes a long, long time to ever happen*) any of my soaps develop DOS, that'll go into the notes as well.
 

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